Linn bloody Linn

[Mr Pig]

Actually I'm a bit surprised many seem to stay put in their trap and defend them like crazy.

It is weird but not unusual. Think how many people you've met that are total fashion victims? I can think of one guy who won't buy a woolly hat unless it has a designer label on it. Girls who only buy designer handbags. It's exactly the same illness with designer Hi-Fi, just that the people concerned have more disposable income.

Recent example. Someone phoned a Linn dealer I know and said that he'd read an article on the LP12 50th anniversary in the Guardian and wanted to buy one. 50k turntable, no dem, nothing, just wants one. Of course the dealer said 'Yeah. no problem. What system is it going in?. Guy replied. 'I'll be needing one of those too'.

 

[Mr Pig]

I would imagine that Valhalla could be maintained pretty much indefinitely.
It uses very commonly available components and is simple in concept too.
I use a Hercules, partly for this very reason.
I also happen to think that it sounds excellent, but YMMV.

Everything that I've heard suggests it's on a par with the Valhalla. Which isn't a bad thing and of course it does 45. Just about. A lot of people complain about it struggling to start the platter but in my opinion you should always help an LP12 up to speed anyway.

The CD12 didn't make much impact, even at the time. Outside of the Linn fold it was virtually ignored. Naim players were different. You'd see other manufacturers using Naim players at shows, they always had a buzz about them, but you never saw or heard anything about the CD12.

 

[d16b]

Na, I watched a new Linn promotional video yesterday and it was actually a bit sickening. Very nice video, well produced etc, but the only things missing were staff holding babies and subliminal shots of puppy dogs. Which might have been in there of course.

Living were I do I know a little more about Linn than some people and I ain't falling for their bullshit.

I did, dealer bullshit that is.

And when my DAC then pre died (Brilliant) I was offered ‘new’ old kit ‘monumentally better’ than my old stuff which is totally redundant.

Smelling a rat (and a bill of over £10k) I rang Linn.

The kit I was being offered was either no longer maintained or falling off the register back end of this year.

I will defend the ‘aktiv’ sound - that sold me (the imagery etc)

I will not defend their business model and con sumer support.

As I said earlier, I spent my life (from 12) upgrading on and on, INVESTING in hifi I could sell on to move up (much of it still
functioning these days and being repaired).

Most of the manufacturers kit I had (have) is stiff ‘fixable’.

The exception - Linn

I have a sizmik, the amp blew, Linn said buy a new one (sub that is) as parts for the old one were made of unobtainium.

(It wasn’t that old).

Being Yorkshire I opened it up, MOSFET had committed suicide, board looked ok. It had cooked (no heatsink).

Phoned Linn, ’No sir, definitely made of unobtainiable’, sorry, can I send you a link to the new model’.

Search web, find a photo of the internals, take the number of the MOSFET, contact an electronics supplier, less than £5
and it’s worked ever since (touch wood).

My son is a nuclear physicist dealing with stuff way above this. His comment is usually - Dad I’ve been telling you this for decades, it's
all bullshit and bollocks. Musicians don’t use this stuff (guess what he does as well), neither do recording studios). How old are you, you
CANNOT hear anything above 12k (if you are lucky), I’d be surprised if you can hear 10k. Oh, and it’s been scientifically proven you can’t hear any difference between CD or SACD In fact, when testing, even MP3’s were indistinguishable for the medium being recorded/played.

I got the lecture again this morning.

I’ve been given a schematic for a bespoke MC amp and the research. I offered it to him to examine and consider. He didn’t know what
MC or MM were (and wasn’t really interested). His new album is being promoted as I type.

 

[sq225917]

Ffs. Linn do not sell the volume of required components to make manufacture of 'any' dedicated silicon viable. Not even diodes, never mind chips.

The only commercially viable option to them is running their code on fpga's, which isn't the same thing at all.

The best they could hope for is batched production of an existing device, binned to their desired spec choice and marked as they desire. These would be 1:1 identical to the rest of the production.

 

[d16b]

It is weird but not unusual. Think how many people you've met that are total fashion victims? I can think of one guy who won't buy a woolly hat unless it has a designer label on it. Girls who only buy designer handbags. It's exactly the same illness with designer Hi-Fi, just that the people concerned have more disposable income.

Recent example. Someone phoned a Linn dealer I know and said that he'd read an article on the LP12 50th anniversary in the Guardian and wanted to buy one. 50k turntable, no dem, nothing, just wants one. Of course the dealer said 'Yeah. no problem. What system is it going in?. Guy replied. 'I'll be needing one of those too'.

I had an AR turntable, you could put that on the floor and party - no disruption or feedback. Then came the TD150 - had one to. That became the Ariston (had one), that became the LP12 (got one - idiot).

I sold my Nottingham Analogue Space Deck (idiot - the walls DID disappear with that) to get the Linn

I got rid of my Michell Transcriptors Reference - I’m a total numpty - for the Nottingham Analogue (it was a genuine work of art, they’ve got one in MOMA New York.

I've bought a TD124 that came from BBC recording studio (still boxed), bought it off a pop star of the 60’s at an antiques fair on the promise I will restore and use it. Moldovan plinth ready to fit. I keep my word.

 

[d16b]

Ffs. Linn do not sell the volume of required components to make manufacture of 'any' dedicated silicon viable. Not even diodes, never mind chips.

The only commercially viable option to them is running their code on fpga's, which isn't the same thing at all.

The best they could hope for is batched production of an existing device, binned to their desired spec choice and marked as they desire. These would be 1:1 identical to the rest of the production.

Rega keep duplicate lasers for customers

There are many other bespoke manufacturers who do

Most don’t charge over a £100k and then tell you to bugger off and spend more when it becomes faulty

 

[d16b]

Everything that I've heard suggests it's on a par with the Valhalla. Which isn't a bad thing and of course it does 45. Just about. A lot of people complain about it struggling to start the platter but in my opinion you should always help an LP12 up to speed anyway.

The CD12 didn't make much impact, even at the time. Outside of the Linn fold it was virtually ignored. Naim players were different. You'd see other manufacturers using Naim players at shows, they always had a buzz about them, but you never saw or heard anything about the CD12.

The dealer I bought most of my kit off bemoaned the end of Linn when they went AV.

He told me to stay away from the CD12 - sound advice

 

[cooky1257]

The bitter pill for at least one poster to swallow is Linn's refusal to enable outside repairers to take on the work Linn are choosing not to.
This is infuriating but far from uncommon, try getting a replacement bass cone for a Tannoy Definition or even a TOTL $30k JBL 9800, TAD Exclusives, the Tannoy srm10b bass cone, the classic 'Manley' monitor was until very recently unobtainium-Tannoy weren't interested( talk about Heritage?).

 

[d16b]

Everything that I've heard suggests it's on a par with the Valhalla. Which isn't a bad thing and of course it does 45. Just about. A lot of people complain about it struggling to start the platter but in my opinion you should always help an LP12 up to speed anyway.

The CD12 didn't make much impact, even at the time. Outside of the Linn fold it was virtually ignored. Naim players were different. You'd see other manufacturers using Naim players at shows, they always had a buzz about them, but you never saw or heard anything about the CD12.

I did some work for a bespoke engineer who gave me a drive wheel they make/made to cure LP12 speed instability. Not cheap, still in the box.

 

[d16b]

Actually I'm a bit surpriced many seem to stay put in their trap and defend them like crazy.

It’s also the financial trap. You spend megabucks, one bit breaks, you can’t afford to replace ALL the kit and you bite the bullet to replace one part and then the mega bucks replacement cycle begins.

I’ve parked the Nuance and Kairn in the attic. I’ve fixed the Karik’s SMPS (and now have a spare). I have sourced replacement Hitachi lasers and the mech. But, to be sure, I have bought a YBA Pre (based on Prof Hawksford design) and am awaiting delivery of a YBA dedicated DAC which will ACTUALLY stream Apple Airplay AND had a headphone out. Who knew.

It’s a painful process but as the active Klouts, Katans, Sizmik still work I can keep them until they die (I’ve a second set of Katans in the bedroom (got them cheap)).

 

[Woodface]

The CD12 was widely lauded at launch & was seen as pretty much the best thing around at the time.

Are there any CD players which are lauded 30 years after the fact? Not really, they just don’t have the cache.

 

[d16b]

The bitter pill for at least one poster to swallow is Linn's refusal to enable outside repairers to take on the work Linn are choosing not to.
This is infuriating but far from uncommon, try getting a replacement bass cone for a Tannoy Definition or even a TOTL $30k JBL 9800, TAD Exclusives, the Tannoy srm10b bass cone, the classic 'Manley' monitor was until very recently unobtainium-Tannoy weren't interested( talk about Heritage?).

Lowther fix their speakers back to the 30’s if I recall correctly. but that doesn’t solve your problem.

It’s infuriating to say the least, allied to the ‘anti’ comment trying to paint people as whistleblowers or idiots. Almost like the executives defending the prosecution of innocent post masters.

 

[d16b]

The CD12 was widely lauded at launch & was seen as pretty much the best thing around at the time.

Are there any CD players which are lauded 30 years after the fact? Not really, they just don’t have the cache.

I disagree, there are CD players coming back into the fold as CD rises again.

Best options are the Japanese

 

[chiily]

Ffs. Linn do not sell the volume of required components to make manufacture of 'any' dedicated silicon viable. Not even diodes, never mind chips.

The only commercially viable option to them is running their code on fpga's, which isn't the same thing at all.

The best they could hope for is batched production of an existing device, binned to their desired spec choice and marked as they desire. These would be 1:1 identical to the rest of the production.

Agreed, the logistical overhead, and hence the cost would be sky-high.

Not too long ago, I ran a project buying modified commercial radios, about 2,500 radios in total, including 17% spares. One radio manufacturer scoffed that 2,500 radios is less than one day's production and offered us a re-tooling cost that made the Project Manager cry little tears.

Anything out of the ordinary costs serious money, not just production costs, but support costs...which kinda brings us back the OP's beef.

 

[chiily]

It does read like Linn modified an AKM DAC. Could they really be doing something like this:

New method for "editing" fabricated chips enables more-efficient designs

Reducing the energy of ion beams used for editing eliminates the need for “sacrificial” areas between electrical components and improves precision.

www.amazon.science

I suspect they added external circuitry, like everyone else does.

Thanks for the link about editing silicon, really interesting stuff.

 

[Woodface]

I disagree, there are CD players coming back into the fold as CD rises again.

Best options are the Japanese

Completely irrelevant point.

 

[russel]

Wot picture, all I did was post a link to the new Linn architecture rout.

Don’t blame me

No more off-the-shelf: Why we bespoke our DAC to the extreme | Linn International

www.linn.co.uk

It’s linked to your link. It’s difficult to think of Linns marketing department talking utter tosh, I know, but there is a first time for everything.

Katalyst | Technology | Linn

Katalyst DAC architecture performs digital-to-analogue conversion with exceptional precision by controlling critical elements of the analogue signal creation.

www.linn.co.uk

 

[russel]

It does read like Linn modified an AKM DAC. Could they really be doing something like this:

New method for "editing" fabricated chips enables more-efficient designs

Reducing the energy of ion beams used for editing eliminates the need for “sacrificial” areas between electrical components and improves precision.

www.amazon.science

I suspect they added external circuitry, like everyone else does.

FIB requires use of an electron microscope to accurately place the beam, it’s not meant for mass production but chip design. It costs a shed load of dosh per device.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

The CD12 was widely lauded at launch & was seen as pretty much the best thing around at the time.

Are there any CD players which are lauded 30 years after the fact? Not really, they just don’t have the cache.

I disagree, there are CD players coming back into the fold as CD rises again.

Best options are the Japanese

Completely irrelevant point.

Have you ever, and I do mean ever, considered there may have been a slight misunderstanding of your first post? IME, you love to disagree, seemingly just for the sake of it.

 

[Woodface]

Have you ever, and I do mean ever, considered there may have been a slight misunderstanding of your first post? IME, you love to disagree, seemingly just for the sake of it.

Not really the point I was making. I understand you dislike nearly everything I post & that’s perfectly fine.

I just don’t see any CD players as particularly iconic in the same way that people view record players. The CD12 & naim CDS range were highly revered when in production but have any CD players achieved ‘classic’ status? Many have died away due to lack of parts etc.

The irony of all this is that person you are obviously defending has even more fixed views than I do.

Just make your life easier & put me on ignore.