Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha - Quality?

[gez]

Presumably you would then also apply that approach to anything with more than the most thin,,basic design casework too?

Considering that any amp I'd be interested in would be a reasonably high power solid state amp, neccesesitating a reasonably heavy PSU stage i'd expect the case to be sturdy enough to support 16kg odd of internal weight without flexing. So there's be a limit to how thin that case could be. But if you're asking do I think manufacturers should be wasting money on 1" thick milled aluminium cases all around, then no i don't.

 

[gez]

me too regarding XLR connectors, they do sound better, also they're more secure than phonos

XLR are quite often added on amplifiers that don't use fully balanced circuitry. In those circumstances I wouldn't use the XLR connection on those amps as they add no advantage and just add extra circuitry in the signal path that will add some level of distortion, no matter how low. Actually I've come to the stage where I probably just wouldn't use an amplifier that wasn't fully balanced from input to output in the first place. Primarily because they do now exist in domestic amplifiers and they're not more expensive than the traditional unbalanced amplifiers, so my nerd brain would find it difficult to pay the same money for a technicallly worse solution. (Even if it makes no audible difference in practice).

 

[Tom60300]

I'm not quite sure why we would lump Luxman and Accuphase together. Sonically they are quite a bit different, and from what I know, there later is better built.

Yeah, well I had the Accuphase E-480 for a month on trial and it was a total relief to get rid of it. The Luxman L-509AXII I have now for a year lacks absolutely nothing compared to Accuphase; sound, looks, features, build quality. Is the debate about statistics on paper or how these amplifiers make music? I'm no fanboy of anything and especially not Accuphase. They definitely aren't God's gift to audiophiles by any means, IMHO.

 

[Dave H.]

Yeah, well I had the Accuphase E-480 for a month on trial and it was a total relief to get rid of it. The Luxman L-509AXII I have now for a year lacks absolutely nothing compared to Accuphase; sound, looks, features, build quality. Is the debate about statistics on paper or how these amplifiers make music? I'm no fanboy of anything and especially not Accuphase. They definitely aren't God's gift to audiophiles by any means, IMHO.

Care to expand on what you didn’t like?

 

[Tom60300]

Care to expand on what you didn’t like?

Sure. Build quality was nice except for the control knobs which were often off-center and skewed asymmetrically. Not great. The gold/champagne color stands out and blends well with no other components unless you go full Accuphase and even then, the color didn't suit me well. Sound wise, the mid and bass were fine but the treble was screechy, sibilant and just a mess on several speakers with different tweeter technology. I may have kept the machine if it weren't for the unruly treble. (Same listening room for 26 years, measured with REW a million times and 8 GIK panels installed. I know my room extremely well). I change one component at a time, including for any cable changes. Ceteris paribus, the Accuphase was the guilty party for a month. Not a tear was shed when it went back. The Luxman by no means is the greatest thing ever but on average it is capable of making music with various genres and I think I'll settle there. Getting off the endless death spiral of upgrading, spending, tweaking, trialing, questioning, reading, comparing and testing was a major victory for me. As always, this is purely subjective and to some I may appear to be a bonafide heretic. Brgds.

 

[andrewd]

I think with amplifiers there is more to build quality than the physical attributes like the thickness of the aluminium face plate, smoothness of controls etc. Most amplifiers in the Accuphase/Luxman price class seem to be very well built from this perspective.

I think the more important aspect of amplifier build quality is the quality of the internal components and how well assembled it is inside. Design decisions that affect the longevity of internal components are also a factor. Poor quality components and sub-optimal design usually doesn’t become evident to the end user until 10 or 20 years service life. I don’t think too many end users would be sufficiently qualified to judge internal build quality on currently manufactured amplifiers (myself included).

Accuphase has a good reputation for long term reliability with decades old products still selling for high prices. Luxman has changed ownership and market strategy over the years and some of their historical products are not highly regarded. The products they make now look and sound excellent, but the quality of the internal design and components will only become evident after 10-20 years (IMO).

 

[Dave H.]

Sure. Build quality was nice except for the control knobs which were often off-center and skewed asymmetrically. Not great. The gold/champagne color stands out and blends well with no other components unless you go full Accuphase and even then, the color didn't suit me well. Sound wise, the mid and bass were fine but the treble was screechy, sibilant and just a mess on several speakers with different tweeter technology. I may have kept the machine if it weren't for the unruly treble. (Same listening room for 26 years, measured with REW a million times and 8 GIK panels installed. I know my room extremely well). I change one component at a time, including for any cable changes. Ceteris paribus, the Accuphase was the guilty party for a month. Not a tear was shed when it went back. The Luxman by no means is the greatest thing ever but on average it is capable of making music with various genres and I think I'll settle there. Getting off the endless death spiral of upgrading, spending, tweaking, trialing, questioning, reading, comparing and testing was a major victory for me. As always, this is purely subjective and to some I may appear to be a bonafide heretic. Brgds.

Thanks, that’s interesting - an aggressive treble is more or less the opposite of what I’d have expected given what people usually say about Accuphase amps. I was curious about them precisely because of their reputation for being more on the warm side.

 

[Plink]

Thanks, that’s interesting - an aggressive treble is more or less the opposite of what I’d have expected given what people usually say about Accuphase amps. I was curious about them precisely because of their reputation for being more on the warm side.

This was me about ten years ago. Having owned Shindo at the time, a dealer gave me an E-460 to try. I thought the amp was transparent but extremely dry sounding. Completely not what I had expected. Perhaps I should have tried a class A.

I this was partly because I was heavily into valves at that time…Shindo and single ended triode amps. My tastes have changed and I am back to being interested in Accuphase again (and others)…need some power for one of my speakers.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

me too regarding XLR connectors, they do sound better, also they're more secure than phonos

There are some manufacturers who say single ended (RCA) sound better than balanced. Benchmark? But XLRs are much better structurally.

 

[andrewd]

I contacted Signals to ask what they prefer since they have a lot of experience with the whole range. Interestingly, they prefer RCA for Accuphase pre/power. I have some nice examples of both so will do some testing when the system is in a different rack (not anytime soon).

Agree with the more solid design of XLR connectors. On some stiffer cables, twisting the cable to align the XLR pins can be a challenge.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Thanks, that’s interesting - an aggressive treble is more or less the opposite of what I’d have expected given what people usually say about Accuphase amps. I was curious about them precisely because of their reputation for being more on the warm side.

I had an E-480, my first Accuphase amp. An aggressive treble was the last thing it possessed, so I'm really puzzled by that remark.

 

[shrink]

Just reading the specs, and whilst this doesn't determine sound quality or component quality, noticed it 'only' has a 600 VA transformer. Which seems pretty small for a 11k amp? Is that good value? I am writing this as someone who would be interested in owning this or something similar at some point.

As an example. And I know it's not comparable as one system is a integrated and another pre power, but many purchasers will go from separates to pre power and vice versa, an exposure 5010 system has two 800VA transformers (one per mono) and 200 VA in the pre, so a total of 1800 VA for 8k. The 3510 series has 1000 VA in total for around 5k I think.

So is that a good value proposition at 11k?

For what its worth, I have its immediate predecessor the 509X and the specs are broadly identical.

Two things:

Firstly the measurements are quite conservative and when hifi news measured the Luxman it put out comfortably more than its stated output, nearer 150w pc

Secondly, In my system I’ve had quite a few high ish power amps of late, from the parasound halo integrated at 170w, to the Hegel h390 at some 300w, via a McIntosh ma7200 and a Bryston 4bst2.

The Luxman has all the heft, grip and control of any of them, and brought my Harbeths to life in a way few of the others ever did. It combined the warmth and muscle of the Hegel, with the transparency and liquidity of the gato amp150.

It’s my end game (barring failure or a lottery win)

My point? Specs don’t always tell the full story. And sometimes those specs are under promised and over delivered.

While there’s “only” A 600va, that should be enough to have the amp dump all of its 4ohm power load into both channels constantly. It also has huge reserve capacitors with let it run dynamically far more power than this.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

This was me about ten years ago. Having owned Shindo at the time, a dealer gave me an E-460 to try. I thought the amp was transparent but extremely dry sounding. Completely not what I had expected. Perhaps I should have tried a class A.

I this was partly because I was heavily into valves at that time…Shindo and single ended triode amps. My tastes have changed and I am back to being interested in Accuphase again (and others)…need some power for one of my speakers.

I happen to know there’s an immaculate E480 on the used sales list at The Audioworks in Cheadle. It was mine.

 

[maccar]

I happen to know there’s an immaculate E480 on the used sales list at The Audioworks in Cheadle. It was mine.

What did you change the E480 for?
Mac

 

[awkwardbydesign]

I sold mine to buy an E-800.

 

[Plink]

I happen to know there’s an immaculate E480 on the used sales list at The Audioworks in Cheadle. It was mine.

Thanks for mentioning. Would be great to acquire an amp with a known provenance. Unfortunately, I’m far from the UK and not an option for me.

 

[terrycym]

There was an Accuphase amp and CD player in the Fyne Audio room in this year’s Bristol Show.
i didn’t hear them as I didn’t attend this year.
did anybody hear them?
The new DP-770 was on display much to my chagrin as l’m thinking of buylng one and getting a dem is proving most difficult

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

What did you change the E480 for?
Mac

I've gone for the E-5000

There was an Accuphase amp and CD player in the Fyne Audio room in this year’s Bristol Show.
i didn’t hear them as I didn’t attend this year.
did anybody hear them?
The new DP-770 was on display much to my chagrin as l’m thinking of buylng one and getting a dem is proving most difficult

The DP770 is stunning, a significant step up from the DP750 it replaces, which I would have said wasn't possible. It was partnered with an E-800, IIRC.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

There was an Accuphase amp and CD player in the Fyne Audio room in this year’s Bristol Show.
i didn’t hear them as I didn’t attend this year.
did anybody hear them?
The new DP-770 was on display much to my chagrin as l’m thinking of buylng one and getting a dem is proving most difficult

I was going to the show, but for the first and only time my car wouldn't start. It did eventually, but I couldn't risk it, as I needed to drop my wife off at my daughter's and then drive to Bristol, picking her up on the way back. If it wouldn't start in Bristol I would have been screwed. Even worse, I particularly wanted to hear the Fynes, preferably with an Accuphase amp!

 

[TheDecameron]

Funnily enough...In my quest to reduce box count (for good reasons I won't elaborate on) I borrowed my dealer's Accuphase A-480, more out of curiosity than anything else, as a possible replacement for my Naim 552DR/500DR. I've also realised that, for this amp, you can buy a DAC card which, I understand, is rather good, so I could potentially lose five boxes (amps & DAVE DAC, Chord M-Scaler).

Anyway, once I'd managed to get it in the door and up on the rack (it's bloody heavy!) I gave it a fair listen yesterday, and was pleasantly surprised, but it did sound rather harsh. It's a pretty new unit, so I left it playing for a couple of hours this morning & it definitely sounds a bit more mellow. Interesting! As others note, it's beautifully made; a real old-fashioned, Japanese receiver-type appearance, it oozes quality and is a pleasure to use. Having to physically switch over to amp only for my A/V system's a bit of a fag, but not a huge problem. It doesn't currently have the DAC module fitted (my dealer's demo unit's out) but I think the next stage is to borrow it.

Does it sound as good as the Naim? No, of course it doesn't! And once I hook that back up it'll sound better, but increasingly, I realise my audio memory either isn't what it was, or I'm more inclined to relax into a good sound and forget about how much better it could sound. Mmmm...

It’s not just the lugging in I find is the problem, it’s the getting round the back to sort the cables, relying on touch or dragging the boxes out and compromising other flimsy connectors. That’s before you shout for help to get back up off the floor. There’s a lot to be said for one box solutions.