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Way to go Greta

Harvey63 said:
Quick poll:

How many children do you have?
Click to expand...
Number of kids is not very meaningful without considering generational gap and lifestyle.

Generational Gap

Let's say I have 4 children. I had them all in my forties. My children also waited until they were 40 until they had kids. By the time I am 75, there are 4 more people on the planet.

If I had 2 kids by the age of twenty, and my kids also had two kids by the age of twenty, by the time I am 75, there are 14 more people on the planet.

(If my maths is right) when I'm 90, the figures are 40 and 30 respectively. When I'm 100, the figures are 40 and 64 respectively.

Number of kids is not very meaningful, without considering generational gap. And we must also consider lifestyle.

Lifestyle

If we are talking only about carbon footprint, and not other resource issues, just 15% of the UK population takes 70% of flights. Lifestyle is key. Just one London-New York return flight emits 986kg CO2 (Guardian). As the article says, there are 56 countries in the world where the average person's annual emissions do not exceed this.
 
Most people can't have children on their own.

2 people have 4 children at 40. At age 80, 10 people have produced 20 children. The numbers increase.

2 people have 2 children at 20. At 40, 4 people have 4 children. And so on. The numbers don't increase.

(or I can't count)
 
The number in use is children per female over her lifetime, because that's the limiting factor. If this figure falls below 2, regardless of when the babies are born, the population will eventually decline.
 
Ponty,

You’re the Schrödinger’s cat of climate change — we need to do something drastic and immediate about climate change / not do anything at all about climate change.

Joe
 
Bananahead said:
Most people can't have children on their own.

2 people have 4 children at 40. At age 80, 10 people have produced 20 children. The numbers increase.

2 people have 2 children at 20. At 40, 4 people have 4 children. And so on. The numbers don't increase.

(or I can't count)
Click to expand...
Your second example isn't right, unless all the adults die young.

In 2000 there are two parents and two kids. In 2020 there are two grandparents, two kids and four grandchildren. The numbers increase.

And the four grandchildren are going to have 8 kids in 2040.

Anyway, I'm willing to be proved wrong about all of this, but Wikipedia says: 'These commonly cited replacement fertility values greater than 2 omit the critical factor of generational time, which is at least as significant as mortality. For example comparing an average age of parents at time of giving birth of 30 to 20 with a life expectancy of 60 affects the population multiplicatively (3 generations corresponding to 20 versus 2 generations corresponding to 30).'
 
Bananahead said:
Most people can't have children on their own.

2 people have 4 children at 40. At age 80, 10 people have produced 20 children. The numbers increase.

2 people have 2 children at 20. At 40, 4 people have 4 children. And so on. The numbers don't increase.

(or I can't count)
Click to expand...
If 2 people were limited to having 2 children the global population will decrease.
due to
early death, infertility, sexual orientation, choice.
 
Ponty said:
She’s going after JP Morgan now. Bet they’re quaking in their boots.

www.bbc.co.uk

Greta Thunberg joins climate protest outside JP Morgan

The climate activist is part of a Fossil Free London protest at JP Morgan's Canary Wharf office.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Why she is after JP Morgan...

Greta Thunberg joins second climate protest in London this week​


Undeterred after being charged over separate demonstration, Thunberg joined fossil fuel activists outside JP Morgan in Canary Wharf

www.theguardian.com

Greta Thunberg joins second climate protest in London this week

Undeterred after being charged over separate demonstration, Thunberg joined fossil fuel activists outside JP Morgan in Canary Wharf
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Mmmm, Greta has bigger gonads than Ponty.
 
Joe P said:
Don’t underestimate Greta Thunberg’s power to influence. Like Malala Yousafzai and Taylor Swift, she has an army of millions.
Click to expand...

She is one of the most important people on the planet at present IMHO. The Nelson Mandela of her generation. She will go down on the right side of history whatever happens, and will be remembered with statues, buildings named after her etc (assuming humans survive) long after all the Tory gobshites, grifters and oil barons are dead and forgotten.
 
Greta Thunberg — 5.6 million followers on Twitter
Malala Yousafzai — 2 million followers on Twitter
Tay-tay — [ ∞ ^ ∞ ] + 1 followers on Twitter

Joe
 
Darmok said:
Why she is after JP Morgan...

Greta Thunberg joins second climate protest in London this week​


Undeterred after being charged over separate demonstration, Thunberg joined fossil fuel activists outside JP Morgan in Canary Wharf

www.theguardian.com

Greta Thunberg joins second climate protest in London this week

Undeterred after being charged over separate demonstration, Thunberg joined fossil fuel activists outside JP Morgan in Canary Wharf
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Mmmm, Greta has bigger gonads than Ponty.
Click to expand...

Well, she’s going after those who fund fossil fuel / oil. That’ll be the vast majority on this forum then who’ll own shares in oil companies and banks as part of their pension schemes.
 
Joe P said:
Ponty,

You’re the Schrödinger’s cat of climate change — we need to do something drastic and immediate about climate change / not do anything at all about climate change.

Joe
Click to expand...

We do. But we’re all complicit and won’t change behaviour as people won’t accept a lower standard of living or lifestyle. In fact, people are constantly striving to increase their consumption.
 
Ponty,

I just don't get your position. You recognize the problem, yet dismiss any attempt at a solution.

Joe
 
Cav said:
You can reduce your own consumption, can't you?
Click to expand...

Of course, but many don’t want to, they want to consume more. Per my example of daily Amazon deliveries etc. Then at a global level (which is all that matters) you have entire countries or even continents who want western, consumption based economies.
 
Ponty said:
Of course, but many don’t want to, they want to consume more. Per my example of daily Amazon deliveries etc. Then at a global level (which is all that matters) you have entire countries or even continents who want western, consumption based economies.
Click to expand...
Right, so your solution won't work. Ergo, there must be another one - the kind that Greta Thunberg and the like are advocating. You'd do well to rally behind the cause, if you can bring yourself to do so.
 
farfromthesun said:
Right, so your solution won't work. Ergo, there must be another one - the kind that Greta Thunberg and the like are advocating. You'd do well to rally behind the cause, if you can bring yourself to do so.
Click to expand...

Why not? Govts can force behaviour change quite easily through taxation if people don’t do it voluntarily. Tax every courier delivery, increase flight taxes, road charging per mile, give tax breaks for not having kids etc. All sorts of things they could do if they had the will.
 
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