Cranage 2023

[TheFlash]

Credit re: the video. That was an excellent and informative watch. Wish I could have been there in one sense but in another it absolutely confirmed stuff we’ve previously discussed about shows.

- bunch of overwhelmingly white middle aged blokes showing stuff to… white middle aged blokes. All that angst about the future of high end audio has clearly been overplayed .
- the headphone section where there was a significant drop off in numbers because the younger demographic who actually do have an interest weren’t in attendance.
- the utter idiocy of using display banners behind speakers and systems both from a sound perspective and the rather basic perspective of wanting to read the damn things.
- the number of display banners which were in fact unreadable regardless because some design genius thought a tiny scripted font and lots of words was a great idea. Hardly reassures in terms of the design/marketing credential for certain products and definitely misunderstands that your audience is white middle aged blokes with ageing eyesight.
- the number of rooms wanting to make a song and dance about source, amplification, DACs, speakers, stands and cables instead of simplifying the system and saying “this is the product we think you should look at/listen to”. It’s just so basic. In the end you leave with a false impression because you don’t know why something is good or terrible or indifferent.
- old complaint but, goodness, the music is awful.
- the same fat bloke stood in multiple doorways blocking egress. Bravo. You are the show cliche to end all sh-w cliches.
- the lighting within rooms. Apparently “harsh” is the only achievable outcome. If I lit my system like that I’d be blind within the week.

And apart from that, you would have had a great day!

Seriously, being there in person and being able to move from room to room depending on mood, music, temperature, hunger, thirst and whether you can sit down is a completely different experience from watching one guy's journey through the rooms, not to mention being able to actually hear how each room actually sounded to the actual listener. You talk about "leaving with a false impression" which is of course a risk but to leave with any real impression at all you actually need to be there. Listening to something recorded on someone else's microphone and played back on your own 'phones or speakers gives at least two stages of reproduction at which so much can be lost. It was a great day.

 

[Paul Mc]

So your experience didn’t match any of the video. Remarkable really. The stuff describe is in the video and thus indisputable. Why don’t you watch the video and then see of you can pick apart my post point by point. I don’t see how you can. It’s all there in glorious colour and it’s not like it’s a superficial five minute glance.

Two quick points: the headphones were very busy and the pull-up banners were not an issue in rooms I enjoyed. I didn't say ANY, please read my post.

 

[Mike Hughes]

And apart from that, you would have had a great day!

Seriously, being there in person and being able to move from room to room depending on mood, music, temperature, hunger, thirst and whether you can sit down is a completely different experience from watching one guy's journey through the rooms, not to mention being able to actually hear how each room actually sounded to the actual listener. You talk about "leaving with a false impression" which is of course a risk but to leave with any real impression at all you actually need to be there. Listening to something recorded on someone else's microphone and played back on your own 'phones or speakers gives at least two stages of reproduction at which so much can be lost. It was a great day.

This is the first Cranage I have missed so I’m fully aware of what the general experience is. I absolutely stand by my original post and would ask anyone who wants to comment on it further to point out the specific bullet points which made points which are inaccurate. I don’t think anyone can as even a casual flick through the video bears the points out explicitly.

Point by point:

- bunch of overwhelmingly white middle aged blokes showing stuff to… white middle aged blokes. All that angst about the future of high end audio has clearly been overplayed. By all means highlight the equal number of women and non-white faces present.
- the headphone section where there was a significant drop off in numbers because the younger demographic who actually do have an interest weren’t in attendance. Zero people under the age of fifty visible at any point.
- the utter idiocy of using display banners behind speakers and systems both from a sound perspective and the rather basic perspective of wanting to read the damn things. Multiple examples of this throughout the video.
- the number of display banners which were in fact unreadable regardless because some design genius thought a tiny scripted font and lots of words was a great idea. Hardly reassures in terms of the design/marketing credential for certain products and definitely misunderstands that your audience is white middle aged blokes with ageing eyesight. Again, multiple examples.
- the number of rooms wanting to make a song and dance about source, amplification, DACs, speakers, stands and cables instead of simplifying the system and saying “this is the product we think you should look at/listen to”. It’s just so basic. In the end you leave with a false impression because you don’t know why something is good or terrible or indifferent. Clearly a harder one to illustrate but also not a difficult impression to form.
- old complaint but, goodness, the music is awful. Weirdly the white middle aged blokes presenting the products will probably disagree but then these are the same people who constantly fail to notice the lack of diversity or wilder at their role in that.
- the same fat bloke stood in multiple doorways blocking egress. Bravo. You are the show cliche to end all sh-w cliches. Watch the video. Irrefutable.
- the lighting within rooms. Apparently “harsh” is the only achievable outcome. If I lit my system like that I’d be blind within the week. Ditto. Irrefutable.

I’ve no issue with people disagreeing with posts but FFS have some actual basis for doing so.

 

[Paul Mc]

This is the first Cranage I have missed so I’m fully aware of what the general experience is. I absolutely stand by my original post and would ask anyone who wants to comment on it further to point out the specific bullet points which made points which are inaccurate. I don’t think anyone can as even a casual flick through the video bears the points out explicitly.

Point by point:

- bunch of overwhelmingly white middle aged blokes showing stuff to… white middle aged blokes. All that angst about the future of high end audio has clearly been overplayed. By all means highlight the equal number of women and non-white faces present.
- the headphone section where there was a significant drop off in numbers because the younger demographic who actually do have an interest weren’t in attendance. Zero people under the age of fifty visible at any point.
- the utter idiocy of using display banners behind speakers and systems both from a sound perspective and the rather basic perspective of wanting to read the damn things. Multiple examples of this throughout the video.
- the number of display banners which were in fact unreadable regardless because some design genius thought a tiny scripted font and lots of words was a great idea. Hardly reassures in terms of the design/marketing credential for certain products and definitely misunderstands that your audience is white middle aged blokes with ageing eyesight. Again, multiple examples.
- the number of rooms wanting to make a song and dance about source, amplification, DACs, speakers, stands and cables instead of simplifying the system and saying “this is the product we think you should look at/listen to”. It’s just so basic. In the end you leave with a false impression because you don’t know why something is good or terrible or indifferent. Clearly a harder one to illustrate but also not a difficult impression to form.
- old complaint but, goodness, the music is awful. Weirdly the white middle aged blokes presenting the products will probably disagree but then these are the same people who constantly fail to notice the lack of diversity or wilder at their role in that.
- the same fat bloke stood in multiple doorways blocking egress. Bravo. You are the show cliche to end all sh-w cliches. Watch the video. Irrefutable.
- the lighting within rooms. Apparently “harsh” is the only achievable outcome. If I lit my system like that I’d be blind within the week. Ditto. Irrefutable.

I’ve no issue with people disagreeing with posts but FFS have some actual basis for doing so.

I reported on my experience, let's leave it there.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Sigh. You reported that some of your experience was different to mine. You failed to notice that my experience was a comment on the video and you’ve not identified a single way in which your experience differed to says video so, yeah, I’m sure it suits you to leave it there.

 

[Sloop John B]

yeah, I’m sure it suits you to leave it there.

suits most of us I’d imagine

.sjb

 

[sq225917]

There were quite a few women there, some apparently on their own, some of them not even white.

There weren't many under 30's but for sure a couple of groups of lads in their 20-30s doing the rounds.

But yes, mostly gammon.

 

[Paul Mc]

Sigh. You reported that some of your experience was different to mine. You failed to notice that my experience was a comment on the video and you’ve not identified a single way in which your experience differed to says video so, yeah, I’m sure it suits you to leave it there.

I'm not happy to be misrepresented, so one last time: I saw a number of young people using the headphone area each time I walked past it, and I don't think the banners played any role in good sounding rooms. I'm not sure what you said added much to our collective knowledge or experience of these shows. You came/come across as rather hectoring and demanding. Sad, because I agree with some of your points, on diversity.

 

[Paul Mc]

I'm not happy to be misrepresented, so one last time: I saw a number of young people using the headphone area each time I walked past it, and I don't think the banners played any role in good sounding rooms. I'm not sure what you said added much to our collective knowledge or experience of these shows. You came/come across as rather hectoring and demanding. Sad, because I agree with some of your points, on diversity.

I can't believe having this stupid exchange TBH. What a waste of my time.

 

[Mike Hughes]

I can't believe having this stupid exchange TBH. What a waste of my time.

Indeed, begs the question as to why anyone would comment on a post they’d not read properly.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Credit re: the video. That was an excellent and informative watch. Wish I could have been there in one sense but in another it absolutely confirmed stuff we’ve previously discussed about shows.

- bunch of overwhelmingly white middle aged blokes showing stuff to… white middle aged blokes. All that angst about the future of high end audio has clearly been overplayed .
- the headphone section where there was a significant drop off in numbers because the younger demographic who actually do have an interest weren’t in attendance.
- the utter idiocy of using display banners behind speakers and systems both from a sound perspective and the rather basic perspective of wanting to read the damn things.
- the number of display banners which were in fact unreadable regardless because some design genius thought a tiny scripted font and lots of words was a great idea. Hardly reassures in terms of the design/marketing credential for certain products and definitely misunderstands that your audience is white middle aged blokes with ageing eyesight.
- the number of rooms wanting to make a song and dance about source, amplification, DACs, speakers, stands and cables instead of simplifying the system and saying “this is the product we think you should look at/listen to”. It’s just so basic. In the end you leave with a false impression because you don’t know why something is good or terrible or indifferent.
- old complaint but, goodness, the music is awful.
- the same fat bloke stood in multiple doorways blocking egress. Bravo. You are the show cliche to end all sh-w cliches.
- the lighting within rooms. Apparently “harsh” is the only achievable outcome. If I lit my system like that I’d be blind within the week.

Were you expecting this show to be different to any other? Why would young people attend, was it promoted somewhere that they’d hear about it?

Show music is always rubbish unless exhibitors allow requests. Lots of attendees will sit and listen to pinky-plonky jazz and politely move on. If I’m interested in a a bit of kit, or a system, I ask for music I’m familiar with.

Cheers BB

 

[Knipester]

Were you expecting this show to be different to any other? Why would young people attend, was it promoted somewhere that they’d hear about it?

Show music is always rubbish unless exhibitors allow requests. Lots of attendees will sit and listen to pinky-plonky jazz and politely move on. If I’m interested in a a bit of kit, or a system, I ask for music I’m familiar with.

Cheers BB

I played in my room stuff from simple minds, daft punk, lcd sound system, buddy guy, go-go penguin, gusgus, billie ellish, paul Simon, Alan parsons, dire straits, the comet is coming, miles Davis, the jam, daft punk, yello, convergence plus loads more.
I can assure you no Diana kraill was played in my room.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Were you expecting this show to be different to any other? Why would young people attend, was it promoted somewhere that they’d hear about it?

Show music is always rubbish unless exhibitors allow requests. Lots of attendees will sit and listen to pinky-plonky jazz and politely move on. If I’m interested in a a bit of kit, or a system, I ask for music I’m familiar with.

Cheers BB

You’ve quoted the sentence in which I make it clear I was not.

As regards your question I think it’s a good point. Why would they? More importantly why would we not want them to?

I played in my room stuff from simple minds, daft punk, lcd sound system, buddy guy, go-go penguin, gusgus, billie ellish, paul Simon, Alan parsons, dire straits, the comet is coming, miles Davis, the jam, daft punk, yello, convergence plus loads more.
I can assure you no Diana kraill was played in my room.

Sufficiently wide range to show what the kit could do but literally nothing which might, for example, attract someone under fifty.

The solution of of course, as Bill says, to let people play their own music but so few seem prepared to do that and more importantly you’ll not find the idea suggested anywhere in the literature for the event.

 

[Brown Bottle]

I played in my room stuff from simple minds, daft punk, lcd sound system, buddy guy, go-go penguin, gusgus, billie ellish, paul Simon, Alan parsons, dire straits, the comet is coming, miles Davis, the jam, daft punk, yello, convergence plus loads more.
I can assure you no Diana kraill was played in my room.

Good on you, not all to my taste but at least familiar. Better than a double bass and a bell being played by £100K worth of kit. Glad you’re keeping it real.

Cheers BB

 

[Knipester]

You’ve quoted the sentence in which I make it clear I was not.

As regards your question I think it’s a good point. Why would they? More importantly why would we not want them to?



Sufficiently wide range to show what the kit could do but literally nothing which might, for example, attract someone under fifty.

The solution of of course, as Bill says, to let people play their own music but so few seem prepared to do that and more importantly you’ll not find the idea suggested anywhere in the literature for the event.

Tough when they don’t bring any of their stuff with them when your on a vinyl system

I asked loads of folk what they wanted and often the response was ‘anything’

 

[Mike Hughes]

Tough when they don’t bring any of their stuff with them when your on a vinyl system

I asked loads of folk what they wanted and often the response was ‘anything’

Of course they don’t. Nothing in the publicity suggests it’s an option.

 

[Knipester]

Of course they don’t. Nothing in the publicity suggests it’s an option.

Getting younger folk there is the bigger issue tbh, that said it the most diverse show on the uk calendar by far with lots of families attending.

 

[Sloop John B]

simple minds, daft punk, lcd sound system, buddy guy, go-go penguin, gusgus, billie ellish, paul Simon, Alan parsons, dire straits, the comet is coming, miles Davis, the jam, daft punk, yello,

literally nothing which might, for example, attract someone under fifty.

Mike are you just in an argumentative mood or just have no idea about some of the music you state under 50s don’t listen to?

.sjb

 

[Mike Hughes]

Mike are you just in an argumentative mood or just have no idea about some of the music you state under 50s don’t listen to?

.sjb

I will give you LCD, Eilish, Daft Punk and The Comet Is Coming but GGP? Really? Been to a couple of their gigs and saw the odd family with a young child and the odd couple in their thirties but largely that’s absolutely not their demographic.

The predominant popular musical form of the past forty years is hip-hop and it’s many variants. The reality is when that’s represented the entire demographic changes. When I hear hip-hop at a show I will die of happiness.

Worth noting that I made a post which addressed the video and the things it highlighted. So far we’ve had one twerp who said that wasn’t their experience but wasn’t able to coherently address my points/post and now wants to complain they were misrepresented. It’s so lacking in self-awareness I CBA to properly address it.

I absolutely agree Cranage is the best UK show but it still falls so far short on such basic stuff and I’m struggling to see any reason to simply not say that and especially when there’s a very long video on this thread making my exact points for me even if that wasn’t the intent.

 

[Mullardman]

Without getting between those merrily scrapping above...
- I heard a range of music, from all genres.
- My pal and I both noted more women, more kids, more young adults, more racial diversity than previously seen.
-I also noted the obligatory fat bloke in the doorway, as well as the three moderately fat, beardy, agitated blokes blocking the corridor oblivious to those trying to pass.
-also the many polite, helpful, normal, jovial people. One couple, possibly older than my 74 years, offered to 'escort' me down some stairs as I was struggling a bit due to cumulative fatigue. Not needed, but appreciated for the thoughtfulness. Many others step aside or hold doors open politely. .. .and not just because they spot a walking stick, or detect a bit of age.
Civility, good manners and a common interest in progress.. Govt. take note..