James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
Not in the flesh or metal, but they do pop up on our local auction site from time to time. Would you like a acquire a set?
Naim: Is it personal?
- Thread starter Uncle Roach
- Start date
clownfish
It's all in the details
I was fortunate enough to have a demo of a Naim statement system with Neats biggest speakers at the time. Also with a top of the range LP12 and an NDS (I think). It was just me and the guys giving the demo as a favour with a mixture of my preferred music and some of theirs.
I was hugely disappointed. It made me realise that my expectations of what hifi can produce were out of whack with reality. It can’t place you in the room, the imaging is great but not holographic and mastering is more important than kit.
I also found the whole system a little clinical. It was technically excellent but not engaging in the way some much lesser systems that have real synergy can be. I guess colouration and imperfection can be endearing.
I think most would be surprised to hear I enjoyed my SuperUniti with Neat Iota’s more. That system fitted my room brilliantly and was simply fun and addictive to play music on.
I learned a huge lesson that day and stopped striving for perfection. When I do head in that direction it’s now focussed on seeking great recordings. Mastering trumps all in my book.
I was hugely disappointed. It made me realise that my expectations of what hifi can produce were out of whack with reality. It can’t place you in the room, the imaging is great but not holographic and mastering is more important than kit.
I also found the whole system a little clinical. It was technically excellent but not engaging in the way some much lesser systems that have real synergy can be. I guess colouration and imperfection can be endearing.
I think most would be surprised to hear I enjoyed my SuperUniti with Neat Iota’s more. That system fitted my room brilliantly and was simply fun and addictive to play music on.
I learned a huge lesson that day and stopped striving for perfection. When I do head in that direction it’s now focussed on seeking great recordings. Mastering trumps all in my book.
Craig B
Re:trophile
Not particularly. I am just curious as to how common these might have been down there.
Of course, should you ever decide to part with your chrome bumper NAIT 2...
Avon
pfm Member
Please go on to explain a bit more.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I had the 82. Pricey. And that was second hand. Much as I liked it, I could never really equate its performance with the price. It was a good, honest piece of kit but I now know that there other more reasonably priced gear that is equally good ,if not better. I was glad that I didn’t fall into the upgrade path.
cj66
pfm Member
Back to the OP, was it not Naim & Linn that did this to themselves?
Through their own marketing, advertising and attitudes towards retailers.
If you place yourself on a podium every Tom Dick and Harry will want to knock you down.
Both companies continue to do very well so who's wrong and who's right?
My first HiFi retail job was with a Naim dealer that, unusually, also sold Exposure and not Linn. That really went against the Naim philosophy!
There was a total bias at the store for Exposure over Naim. Looking back this was not only based on perceived/preferred sound but also because Exposure, i.e. Kevin Edwards back then, regularly visited to fly the flag, generally support and encourage, as was his job to do so.
We never saw anyone from Naim. The brand was derided at the store, unless a customer specifically wanted it, with all the old arguments against it. Such as the power and signal bundled in the same cables, the very nasty plastic knobs, both original small version and the later "tractor wheels". The brand was doomed at the store.
In contrast, Exposure's original test-equipment style casework (aka biscuit tins), that was a bit nasty, was positively sold as a good value feature and, of course, they had proper milled metal knobs!
The vagaries of folks, sales and WHY.
Through their own marketing, advertising and attitudes towards retailers.
If you place yourself on a podium every Tom Dick and Harry will want to knock you down.
Both companies continue to do very well so who's wrong and who's right?
My first HiFi retail job was with a Naim dealer that, unusually, also sold Exposure and not Linn. That really went against the Naim philosophy!
There was a total bias at the store for Exposure over Naim. Looking back this was not only based on perceived/preferred sound but also because Exposure, i.e. Kevin Edwards back then, regularly visited to fly the flag, generally support and encourage, as was his job to do so.
We never saw anyone from Naim. The brand was derided at the store, unless a customer specifically wanted it
, with all the old arguments against it. Such as the power and signal bundled in the same cables, the very nasty plastic knobs, both original small version and the later "tractor wheels". The brand was doomed at the store.In contrast, Exposure's original test-equipment style casework (aka biscuit tins), that was a bit nasty, was positively sold as a good value feature and, of course, they had proper milled metal knobs!
The vagaries of folks, sales and WHY.
onlyconnect
pfm Member
Pretty sure there is little more to be said on this, that has not already been said.
My CB Naim gear has lasted well and still sounds good. The SBLs are fab too.
Tim
My CB Naim gear has lasted well and still sounds good. The SBLs are fab too.
Tim
Bas V
pfm Member
That's all there's to it. I am perfectly happy my UQ2 in my room. I have some experience with mega-bucks systems and none of them has ever made me drool. They all miss some sort of fun-factor...
Dingbat
pfm Member
For better or worse, I've decided to stick with Naim, and I'm in Australia, where it's not that easy being a Naim owner. In the UK, I could perhaps understand people becoming Naim Zealots, but in Australia or other places like the USA, you're more likely to be into Naim because you genuinely like it. The kit is more expensive, harder to audition, and it's painful trying to acquire new parts without breaking the bank.
The New Classic seems to have become a bit more modern, but the older Naim kit can be rather arcane. Strange cables, power supplies and lots of black boxes. I do agree that less boxes would be nice.
After a lot of listening and upgrading various components, I've come to the conclusion that there definitely is merit to Naim, the sound presentation suits the way I like the music to sound, but it doesn't mean that it's the be all and end all of everything. I do find it interesting how some people throw out dismissive comments about Naim, and even mention that they used to own Naim, but now think it's a pile of rubbish, or something to that effect.
Naim equipment can be a bit tricky to setup in order to sound at its best. I've discovered that the hard way myself. However, I don't subscribe entirely to the Naim way of doing things. I don't have Naim Fraim, and I'm not using their cables. I can only suppose that people who don't like it either just don't gel with it, or didn't get it setup that well. Perhaps they moved onto something later that they like better, but usually those people have pretty measured responses.
Every brand of HiFi is a bit different. There is variety out there. There is no one HiFi brand to rule them all. If there was, it would be a monopoly. Instead, there are lots of different brands, and different ways of doing things. People like different things. Fair enough.
What probably didn't help Naim is they designed such a level of upgraditus into their product range that it's infuriating. The separates range can become an endless road - it's difficult to know when to stop. It probably tricked some people into upgrading until they ended up at 552/500 level and then wondered how they ended up there with their bank accounts a lot lighter.
The New Classic seems to have become a bit more modern, but the older Naim kit can be rather arcane. Strange cables, power supplies and lots of black boxes. I do agree that less boxes would be nice.
After a lot of listening and upgrading various components, I've come to the conclusion that there definitely is merit to Naim, the sound presentation suits the way I like the music to sound, but it doesn't mean that it's the be all and end all of everything. I do find it interesting how some people throw out dismissive comments about Naim, and even mention that they used to own Naim, but now think it's a pile of rubbish, or something to that effect.
Naim equipment can be a bit tricky to setup in order to sound at its best. I've discovered that the hard way myself. However, I don't subscribe entirely to the Naim way of doing things. I don't have Naim Fraim, and I'm not using their cables. I can only suppose that people who don't like it either just don't gel with it, or didn't get it setup that well. Perhaps they moved onto something later that they like better, but usually those people have pretty measured responses.
Every brand of HiFi is a bit different. There is variety out there. There is no one HiFi brand to rule them all. If there was, it would be a monopoly. Instead, there are lots of different brands, and different ways of doing things. People like different things. Fair enough.
What probably didn't help Naim is they designed such a level of upgraditus into their product range that it's infuriating. The separates range can become an endless road - it's difficult to know when to stop. It probably tricked some people into upgrading until they ended up at 552/500 level and then wondered how they ended up there with their bank accounts a lot lighter.
Tony L
Administrator
I’d argue SBLs are a real bargain on the second hand market at present. A very nice speaker for around £450-550 mint and boxed if lucky.
onlyconnect
pfm Member
I never found this difficult, oddly. Perhaps in part because a 6-pack was never an option for me domestically, never mind financially! Whereas the 32.5/HiCap/250 looks rather smart IMO.
Tim
Iain Docherty
pfm Member
I went to a Naim demo at the Scottish hifi show at Dalmahoy once. They weren’t exactly overwhelmed with punters and so were actively soliciting music choices. I gave them a Keith Jarrett disc and asked them to play one of the shorter less improvised ie more approachable pieces at the end. The guys doing the demo turned it off about two minutes because the multi box mega system was making such a hash of it; it was screechy beyond belief. I listened to my late dad’s Naim system for decades and never got it… but that demo was something else altogether
Nero
Re: Tired
clownfish
It's all in the details
Kondo m77 …
We get transported into a world of spiritual longings, ecstasies and despairs that takes the inner emotional self on what I can only describe as some kind of minor mystical transport. It can often reveal, in the superficially banal, something simply earth-shattering. The Kondo M77 is the only piece of audio equipment I've heard do this - which is why it exists at the very pinnacle of Parnassus.
I’ll take two then please
Dingbat
pfm Member
I got used to it, but I can't say I'm a great fan of it. If you have the 282, like I have gotten recently, you have a preamp power supply, the NAPSC, and then the poweramp. 3 different things to switch on/off, probably best done in the right order. You don't want to be turning it on/off too frequently.
I do wonder sometimes why I keep sticking with Naim when some aspects of it are rather insane. Maybe I am as well?
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
At least the power on/off switches are in front of the Naim boxes, unlike my Densen amps and CDP, which are around the back. Yet, it's easy enough for me to reach around to turn them on and off before and after each listening session. I cannot tell if they sound worse from cold vs being left on the whole time. They sound just fine to my ears from stone cold. Maybe I'm not so golden eared any more.
I do the same when I bring out the little CB NAIT2 for a play. It's amazing what a belief philosophy can do to your behaviour and perception. I've veered from optimising sound quality to protecting equipment longevity. I'd hate for a fault with the amps to take out my precious Yamaha NS-1000Ms while I'm not home or fast asleep.
@Dingbat, maybe you can turn your Naim system off and listen again from cold with an open mind to judge if there is an audible difference.
I do the same when I bring out the little CB NAIT2 for a play. It's amazing what a belief philosophy can do to your behaviour and perception. I've veered from optimising sound quality to protecting equipment longevity. I'd hate for a fault with the amps to take out my precious Yamaha NS-1000Ms while I'm not home or fast asleep.
@Dingbat, maybe you can turn your Naim system off and listen again from cold with an open mind to judge if there is an audible difference.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I also didn’t like the din only access, the constant low hiss and the limiting of speaker cables in the Olive. Seemed so at archaic, even then. Still sounded good though.