Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
You aren’t important enough for anyone to use google to translate your inane gibberish.
Racism, sexism etc in sport.
- Thread starter Tony Lockhart
- Start date
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
I love that I am important enough to you to reply though...loving living rent free inside your bigoted nuggin Bobby
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
How's it fair that this guy can fight women in MMA?
That's 9x women's Jiu-Jitsu world champion and MMA fighter Gabrielle Garcia. There was some debate at one point about whether she should be allowed to fight men.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabi_Garcia
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Yes, it was an interview from one of the drivers in the Iron Dames racing team. I read it a few days ago but cannot lay my hands on it currently. I know that feeder formula teams don't have power steering for sure. This is not the be all and end all but one data point, there are others of course.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
This feeble little wisp of a girl is a glimmer of hope. Just take a second to absorb the speed she reaches in 1,000ft
Yes, it’s unarguably less physical than circuit and rally driving, but the psychological battles in drag racing are a huge part of it. And she keeps improving.
Yes, it’s unarguably less physical than circuit and rally driving, but the psychological battles in drag racing are a huge part of it. And she keeps improving.
I’ve driven a formula Ford single seater, they don’t require any real strength, power steering is only a factor when parking.
Obviously F1 involves some serious G force & the driver have to be very fit.
I think the bigger barrier is sexism, ‘women drivers’ etc
Women have proved themselves capable of driving cars without power steering for quite a while
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
I’ve driven a formula Ford single seater, they don’t require any real strength, power steering is only a factor when parking.
Obviously F1 involves some serious G force & the driver have to be very fit.
I think the bigger barrier is sexism, ‘women drivers’ etc
Women have proved themselves capable of driving cars without power steering for quite a while
It’s worth reading the interview, tiggers kindly found it for me and posted above. Formula Ford is irrelevant, no downforce, F2 and F3 are what Michelle Gatting was referring to.
However I do agree sexism is an issue, again read the interview, she covers that as well. I personally believe that women can be as fast as men, we just need more in the sport, its a numbers game and with at least a 1000:1 ratio (my guess) of female drivers, what are the odds of getting a female Hamilton or Verstappen?
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Yes interesting that women are right at the top of the sport in drag racing where physical limitations are limited.
I’ve read it & the main issues are around sexism, the physical strength element is a small part of the piece, certainly not the leading factor.
I think the odds of another Hamilton are also very, very remote.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
If it was blindingly obvious then there would not be an ongoing, major, society wide debate.
Again the whole tone is “My argument is definitive. It’s self evident. Anyone who disagrees is wrong.”
You don’t argue. You assert.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
I can imagine how ambitious parents might dose teenage girls around puberty on testosterone for a few years to get height and muscle bulk and then discontinue before any testing might catch them. This would give a huge permanent advantage over most women. I am not sure that this cheating could be detected
And you argue black's white to "win"the argument and play the disingenuous card until any desire to have a discussion is spent. . I'm not wearing it. It's blindingly obvious what relevance male/female biological differences have to a debate about transgender athletes, we discussed male puberty earlier. I'm not wasting further electrons on someone who is wilfully deaf to listen.
So give over with the disingenuous schtick and make your point, or just carry on as you are pretending not to understand until everyone else making a point has packed up and walked away in search of something more interesting.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Indeed. From long and bitter experience of this debate in left wing and feminist circles I can tell you the answer to the question "Do transgender athletes have an advantage in sport?" the answer is broadly "probably but it depends on circumstances and more research is needed". And I would advise people to read widely and carefully as partisan voices and bad faith abound.
This article I like as it talks in plain terms about the science: https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20210715/do-trans-women-athletes-have-advantages
A suprisingly nuanced article on testosterone in the of all places the Daily Tel : https://www.telegraph.co.uk/womens-...ial-report-mystery-testosterone-womens-sport/
The UK Parliament's report concluded roughly there is an advantage: https://post.parliament.uk/research-briefings/post-pn-0683/
This Canadian NGO broadly no: https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/f...rt-ascientificreview-executivesummary-e_0.pdf
My other perspective on this is that in my circles this discussion started about a decade ago in Women's sport with regard to biological female athletes like Caster Semenya and a complicated question gets even harder when you start to think about that perspective.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...one-levels-face-hurdles-under-new-iaaf-rules/
https://www.popsci.com/story/science/testosterone-effect-athletic-performance/
https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroo...tting-an-unscientific-precedent-warn-experts/
That's a bit more like it.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Being interested in rowing, I Googled "rowing+transgender" and discovered that it is all horribly complicated, and that probably there is no way of being "fair" to everyone concerned. For instance, the UK rowing federation has established rules that are different from the World Rowing rules, are also different from the rules of other UK sports federations, and different to other national rowing federations. They have a questionnaire that applicants must fill out that includes items on testosterone levels over the previous months and years and the intention of continuing hormone treatment in the future. But also about having had, or not having had, surgery to transform male genitals into female genitals. From what I understand, which I admit is not much, an ex-male now female identifying athlete can still have male genitals. But if she has had surgery to construct pseudo-female genitals, it may count in her favour when being evaluated by the rowing federation's panel for acceptance as a female athlete. Meanwhile, oarswomen who have dedicated years of their adolescence and youth to training for hours twice a day are worried that they may be outclassed by ex-male transgender females. The management of the rowing federation makes sweeping declarations about wanting to be inclusive and open to everyone. But you can tell they have their knickers in a complicated twist.
Paul R
pfm Member
Until 1988 there were no female classes in Olympic yachting. Britain sent Cathy Foster to Los Angeles in 1984 in the 470 class, she had a male crew I think. She was an outlier, if not unique.
So presumably classes for women were introduced to increase participation, and the classes differ according to physical characteristics. Laser Radial for women, Laser for men. For example. The 470 is shared though, it would be really interesting to mix that fleet up and see what happened.
I think that the current convention is to use "male" and "female" to describe what you were born with and your biological chromosome makeup, and then use "man" and "woman" to describe gender. The implication being that sex is immutable, you were born with it, but gender you can reassign. This makes sense, a male born child will have XY chromosomes for their whole life and a female born child XX chromosomes, but anyone can (re)assign their gender to whatever they consider that they are regardless of what they started with.
PaulMB
pfm Member
But surely this is not sufficient where sports are concerned. To use the terminology you describe, I, male and man, can decide that from midnight I will be a woman. But unless I take medical measures to increase my "womanness" no sports body will accept me as a woman and I will not be able to, say, compete in single sculls against women. (Not that they'd be at all worried, in my case).