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Linn LP12s – Fire away!

Yet we still have no hum from the turntable or my Superline when out of my room/ system and back at the dealers.

At mine, it’s not loud but it is not silent, though box moving and socket swapping and cable dressing means it’s quieter now than it was 3 or 4 days ago.
 
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Mr Pig said:
Sometimes you just cannot get rid of that last bit of hum. My system is pretty quiet just now but there have been times I've had to accept a bit of low level hum.
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I am hoping to get it as quiet as it was a couple of weeks ago: I am not giving up yet. However, at some point we need to stop worrying and start listening again.
 
tpetsch said:
You'd really want to get onto a good clean external earth ground like at the base of the main water pipe coming into the house.
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I am hoping to fix this without taking up tarmac or whatever - some sensible compromise must surely exist. Thanks for the suggestion though - it may come to that.
 
NickofWimbledon said:
I am hoping to fix this without taking up tarmac or whatever - some sensible compromise must surely exist. Thanks for the suggestion though - it may come to that.
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Have we discussed the internal TT earthing arrangements yet? An internal picture of each TT might help. Off the top of my head it would be interesting to under stand how each of the signal, arm, bearing plate, power supply and cross brace earths are connected. I presume there are additional earths for the Stilleto and Base as they are now conductive? As mentioned above, if the issue does lie here it is possible your dealer has earthed up your old deck differently (in all innocence). I really hope you get it sorted soon.

Another random thought, I assume there was no hum with your old deck when you returned your Superline to your system after taking it with you to the Vertere audition? Did you install the transport screws and remove them afterwards? Sorry to be a pain, 35 years remote problem diagnosis in the IT industry is to blame for this. :(
 
No noticeable hum after the Vertere trip, but I have spent some time wondering whether I would have noticed if playing the Lingo’d LP12 (which is considerably quieter in this respect than the Radikal) quietly in the few intervening days.

If the dealer has hooked up things (like the arm lead strap) wrong on both turntables, I would not expect them to sound as good as they do when back in the shop. The Superline is also working brilliantly at the shop.

it may be that what remains of the hum after box juggling and cable dressing does not have 1 cause - it could be 1% from this, 1% from that and another 1% from something else. In that case, we may have added 1 or 2 extra 1%s to that list at some point. However that can’t be the whole explanation or a satisfactory final position- more next week.
 
NickofWimbledon said:
If the dealer has hooked up things (like the arm lead strap) wrong on both turntables, I would not expect them to sound as good as they do when back in the shop.
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It's often not that simple. Grounding is a pain and something that works fine in one situation may not be ok in another. The more boxes and greater complexity you have, the more chance there is of an issue. Unfortunately it's impossible to diagnose it remotely, you really need to get your hands on the stuff. I hope the shop sends round someone who knows what they're doing.
 
Mr Pig said:
It's often not that simple. Grounding is a pain and something that works fine in one situation may not be ok in another. The more boxes and greater complexity you have, the more chance there is of an issue. Unfortunately it's impossible to diagnose it remotely, you really need to get your hands on the stuff. I hope the shop sends round someone who knows what they're doing.
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I agree. Sorting out grounding issues Was a big part of LP12 installation back in the day. Once you add in phono stages and multiple external power supplies it can create a perfect storm. Perhaps it still is? I’ve only been a victim once and I was lucky being a simple case of removing an extraneous earth connection.
 
Paul Hindle said:
I agree. Sorting out grounding issues Was a big part of LP12 installation back in the day.
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What I've never understood is why other companies don't use the same arrangement as Rega. I've had loads of issues with Linn arms etc but Rega arms just work and you never get any hum off them. They've been using this earthing method for decades without a problem so how come no one else has copied it?
 
Mr Pig said:
What I've never understood is why other companies don't use the same arrangement as Rega. I've had loads of issues with Linn arms etc but Rega arms just work and you never get any hum off them. They've been using this earthing method for decades without a problem so how come no one else has copied it?
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Probably because no one can agree whether using the left channel ground wire or having a separate ground wire is best. I can’t imagine why. :rolleyes:
 
Paul Hindle said:
Probably because no one can agree whether using the left channel ground wire or having a separate ground wire is best. I can’t imagine why. :rolleyes:
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Well Rega have been using their arrangement for over forty years. If there were problems with it you wouldn't be able to get around them as you cannot disconnect the grounding wire. I am unaware of any problems with it, I've not had any myself.

I have however had problems with a separate earth wire. My rewired RB300 is a perfect example. Used it as standard for years without issue. Got it rewired, which included a separate ground wire, could never get it to stop picking up hum. Fought with it for years. Moving any of the cables even slightly would dramatically increase or decrease the noise but you could never totally eliminate it.

So that was the same arm, same cartridge, same system. Rega earthing, no problems. Separate earth wire, nothing but problems. So I know which is best :0)
 
Paul Hindle said:
if the issue does lie here it is possible your dealer has earthed up your old deck differently (in all innocence).
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I think at this point we've eliminated all the other variables and this has to be the cause! Especially since Nick's other turntable now hums after the dealer put the Cirkus bearing in it.

Nick, I suggest that the dealer bring a setup jig to your place. Open up both 'tables and have a look.
 
joe9407 said:
I think at this point we've eliminated all the other variables and this has to be the cause! Especially since Nick's other turntable now hums after the dealer put the Cirkus bearing in it.

Nick, I suggest that the dealer bring a setup jig to your place. Open up both 'tables and have a look.
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Other option is to get someone else to setup the decks - slight “nuclear option” but in the grand scheme of things much better than tearing up tarmac……
 
joe9407 said:
I think at this point we've eliminated all the other variables and this has to be the cause!
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Because there are so many variables in LP12 spec the grounding can be easy to muck up. You've got the power cable, PSU and chassis grounded through the mains cable, the tonearm grounding the sub-chassis and arm through the arm ground and the power cable. The arm cable outer screen grounding on the negatives of the signal cables. But you can add in metal base plates, arms that are wired differently and other variations that can make it unclear what the best thing to do is. Ground loops are really easy to set up.
 
NickofWimbledon said:
I am hoping to fix this without taking up tarmac or whatever - some sensible compromise must surely exist. Thanks for the suggestion though - it may come to that.
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Not suggesting you take up any tarmac Nick, simply suggesting you try running a piece of wire to the best/cleanest ground in your house, the water pipe where you can see it come into your home, it's usually exposed where you can see it in the utility closet? next to the boiler? There might already be a ground cable on it being used for something else, there is in my house ..every home is different. In my home this would be a quick and easy to try experiment, it would only take me 15 min., but if it's a project for you I can understand.

Paul Hindle said:
Probably because no one can agree whether using the left channel ground wire or having a separate ground wire is best. I can’t imagine why. :rolleyes:
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4 core interconnect used throughout everyone's Naim system is similar too and never seems to be an issue. Naim commonly seems to use the shield/ground wrapped around the yellow wire -for consistency I suppose- and then sometimes the yellow core isn't even used for one of the R/L signal channels -not consistent-, only it's shield is used soldered to the connectors ground Din pins on both ends of the cable, the 3 other copper wrapped internal wires simply touching each other whether for stereo or if all 4 being used for tape in/out.
 
tpetsch said:
Not suggesting you take up any tarmac Nick, simply suggesting you try running a piece of wire to the best/cleanest ground in your house, the water pipe where you can see it come into your home, it's usually exposed where you can see it in the utility closet? next to the boiler? There might already be a ground cable on it being used for something else, there is in my house ..every home is different. In my home this would be a quick and easy to try experiment, it would only take me 15 min., but if it's a project for you I can understand.


4 core interconnect used throughout everyone's Naim system is similar too and never seems to be an issue. Naim commonly seems to use the shield/ground wrapped around the yellow wire -for consistency I suppose- and then sometimes the yellow core isn't even used for one of the R/L signal channels -not consistent-, only it's shield is used soldered to the connectors ground Din pins on both ends of the cable, the 3 other copper wrapped internal wires simply touching each other whether for stereo or if all 4 being used for tape in/out.
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Reaching a copper pipe next to the boiler or hot tank should not be beyond me. Thanks.
 
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