Jerry Sadowitz cancelled

[Woodface]

He does like making life difficult for himself. He’s a pretty funny bloke, doesn’t really need to cross the lines he does.

Frank Skinner has pretty much stopped using potentially offensive language in his act & manages to be as funny as ever.

This kind of thing doesn’t effect me but I can’t pretend to know how it effects people of colour, for example.

 

[Finnegan]

I’m not going to rehearse the arguments made in the ‘Jimmy Carr & The Holocaust’ thread. But any ‘right’ to free speech or artistic expression cannot exist as an abstract principle divorced from social and political consequences.

The BNP and NF believed they had a right to express vile racism. The unconditional free speech argument posits that, however unpalatable the content, banning or restricting free speech equates to the authoritarianism of fascist groups. However there is empirical evidence that wherever these groups gained a foothold, racist attacks increased. The BNP were headquartered in Welling when Stephen Lawrence was murdered by racist thugs. Therefore the BNP/ NF were, in fact, expressing views and opinions that resulted in, or increased the likelihood of, racist assault and murder- completely unacceptable.

In the 1970’s the Paedophile Information Exchange believed it was entirely legitimate to advocate sex with minors incapable of meaningful consent. By no stretch of the unconditional free speech argument can this view be sustained or facilitated by arguing for free speech or free expression.

Sadowitz is neither a paedophile or a racist, but evidently believes that he is slaying sacred cows with impunity. That’s entirely legitimate if done for progressive reasons and done with skill and wit, but with that comes an expectation that you are prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences.

 

[klfrs]

I'll leave it there. I've already said what I want to say. You are not obliged to read it, and I'm not required to make you understand it.

Are you genuinely interested in subject? If so why flounce off?

Whatever the rights and wrongs I imagine there's been a brisk trade this weekend in tickets for the remaining 27 gigs he's playing this year.

The venues will contact Sadowitz's manager requesting sight of a script or recording of show.
The tour might be curtailed, but equally might grow, due to coverage of cancellation at The Fringe.

 

[cooky1257]

The thing for me is why ignore the very clear warning regarding potentially distressing/offensive content, buy tickets then complain about the offensive content?
I tend not to eat at a zero star kebab shop...
I shot a Golden Wonder crisps TV commercial with him around '97 and he was a total live-wire, very funny but very dark almost deranged and out of control.

 

[myles]

Cor, what a palaver the misunderstanding made about the original (and traditional) use of 'cancelled' has caused. I hesitate to suggest that it might have 'triggered' some (in the non-traditional sense).

 

[myles]

The thing for me is why ignore the very clear warning regarding potentially offensive content, buy tickets then complain about the offensive content?

Buy a house at Brize Norton then complain about the loud plane noises - honestly! I used to get calls at least weekly about the noise.....

 

[DonQuixote99]

I agree there’s been some not reading/understanding of posts, but by both of us.
There was no right-wing “cancelled” trope, just a cancelled show, but you were triggered by the word.

I don't like Sadowitz, Manning or Boyle so would never buy a ticket for their shows.
But I don't want any of them to be cancelled either, and especially by those who wear a progressive vaneer but regularly excrete big lumps of authoritarianism.

That’s proper bullshit.
Banning Sadowitz is denying his right of self-expression.

Always this argument ignores the right of property owners in this context. Rights in conflict. Your right of self-expression does not give you a right to commandeer my stage.

 

[Bob McC]

Not the same argument, but you taking a similar position to those who demanded The Satanic Verses were banned.
Many inclined to authoritarianism self identify as progressive.

Utter nonsense.
He could quite easily have done his act, for free, on any street corner in Edinburgh.

 

[klfrs]

Always this argument ignores the right of property owners in this context. Rights in conflict. Your right of self-expression does not give you a right to commandeer my stage.

Your right to post before finding out who owns the venue.
It's City of Edinburgh Council, so ultimately we the people, and The Edinburgh Fringe receives public money.

Utter nonsense.
He could quite easily have done his act, for free, on any street corner in Edinburgh.

Speaking of utter nonsesense street performers in Edinbugh require a license.

 

[DonQuixote99]

Not the same argument, but you taking a similar position to those who demanded The Satanic Verses were banned.
Many inclined to authoritarianism self identify as progressive.

I do want to to back to this one, to observe that speaking of authoritarianism, many who self-identify as libertarians are inclined to lynching troublemakers.

 

[DonQuixote99]

Your right to post before finding out who owns the venue.
It's City of Edinburgh Council, so ultimately we the people, and The Edinburgh Fringe receives public money.

Speaking of utter nonsesense street performers in Edinbugh require a license.

The government is property owner then? Changes nothing. They still have the rights. Just changes who their 'board of directors' is.

 

[klfrs]

The government is property owner then? Changes nothing. They still have the rights. Just changes who their 'board of directors' is.

Local govenment owned and not suggesting they don't have rights. But they also have responsibilities to the public such as defending freedom of expression.

 

[DonQuixote99]

Not suggesting they don't have rights. But they also have responsibilities to the public such as defending freedom of expression.

Then you must not ignore their rights because of a differing opinion on how they should choose to exercise them, and how they should balance interest in free expression against other interests.

 

[klfrs]

Then you must not ignore their rights because of a differing opinion on how they should choose to exercise them, and how they should balance interest in free expression against other interests.

I'm not ignoring their rights, but challenging their decision.
The venue is public property so their actions are a public matter.
They’ve been kowtowed by a few people who were too daft find out what they were buying tickets for.

 

[Bob McC]

Your right to post before finding out who owns the venue.
It's City of Edinburgh Council, so ultimately we the people, and The Edinburgh Fringe receives public money.

Speaking of utter nonsesense street performers in Edinbugh require a license.

What a pathetic straw man of a response. Anyway I'm out. Your responses are getting more and more absurd.

 

[klfrs]

What a pathetic straw man of a response.

Anyway I'm out.

Enjoy your flounce.

 

[david ellwood]

Speaking of utter nonsesense street performers in Edinbugh require a license.

Youve never been to the fringe before , have you?

 

[foxwelljsly]

Im which case you haven’t read or understood my posts. I have no idea who this comedian is so no horse in the race. I’m merely explaining that a venue has the right to platform whatever they wish to platform as long as that content is within the law of the land. They also have the right to pull the plug on anything they choose to for whatever reason they choose. Obviously there will be contracts here which neither of us are able to see and I’d expect there to be various legal precautions and get-out clauses, but that is between the parties involved.

I just objected to the right-wing “cancelled” trope which only brings to mind infinite numbers of whiney Jordan Peterson memes. Pompous cry-babies whinging that no one wants to platform their bigotry. I’m sure this Fringe story is something else entirely, but without further details we don’t know. I support a venue’s right to choose what they platform though.

I meant cancelled as in cancelled. They cancelled the rest of his run. I'm not sure how else to put it. I share your dislike of the term 'cancelled' within the context you mention, but they literally cancelled his shows. the definition of cancel is: decide or announce that (a planned event) will not take place.

I posted this as I thought it was amusing that a venue would book Jerry Sadowitz and then be surprised or alarmed at his material or performance.

 

[klfrs]

Youve never been to the fringe before , have you?

ho ho I've worked at the Fringe. Point taken, but Sadowitz isn't a wannabe.
An attempt to do his show on the street would've generated large crowds. It seems unlikely the police would turn a blind eye.

The well meaning but authoritarian leaning brigade are trying to convince us Sadowitz wasn't cancelled at the fringe.
Funny not funny.

 

[zeon]

Might not agree with everything klfrs says but he s very entertaining. He s also seen off Bob which is never a bad thing ( banter )