PFM politics threads

[Joco]

I believe the hard left faction here include me as a Starmer supporter, however, I can assure you I know exactly what Starmer is and also Labour. This is why I have not argued against the notion Labour is following a similar path, I know it is. I just want the tories replaced at the next GE.

TBF, Brian has stated this quite plainly on the threads concerned but has been beaten down by certain posters, unfairly I think. His belief / hope that Labour will be an improvement doesn't necessarily require facts or explanation.

 

[TheDecameron]

...or the neoliberals.

For some reason Ive now got it in my head that the Neoliberals are a spoof band, formed by a bunch of guys who met not at art school but at LSE, who’s output could make Emerson Lake & Palmer sound as banal as Showaddywaddy.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Ironically, this thread has now turned into a pfm politics thread. Which was inevitable, I suppose.

 

[Joco]

I was wondering when we were going to discuss the Matrix Franchise.

 

[TheDecameron]

These days, I don’t post at all in the audio rooms because I am very happy with my system and don’t want to change it. I have basically lost interest in the equipment side of things. My posting is almost entirely off topic these days. Does that mean I should go away?

Egregious as your offences seem, the people we really need to track down and punish with great zeal are those posting in off topic who don’t actually own a hifi.

 

[gintonic]

Tory establishment know it will finish them as they have never had a legitimate mandate for rule in history

I thought that until i heard something on the radio last night - which suggested in the 1931 election they polled 60.8% of the votes cast. Of course that may still not be a true majority if you consider those not voting. Depends on what you are measuring - and of course we have never forced people to vote.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7529/CBP-7529.pdf#page=8

 

[ks.234]

TBF, Brian has stated this quite plainly on the threads concerned but has been beaten down by certain posters, unfairly I think. His belief / hope that Labour will be an improvement doesn't necessarily require facts or explanation.

I think that is fair comment, though asking how voting Labour will improve areas like public spending are also legitimate questions. As Brian has said that he does not expect Labour to be better than the Tories, I am happy to leave it there as I have indicated previously

 

[ks.234]

Look back through any of the recent politics threads and you'll find a small group of people banging on about MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) in every thread. Which I guess is why @paulfromcamden started this thread. I'm surprised you've managed to miss it all.

And yet here you are, bring up MMT again, on a thread where it want mentioned until you an spraggons den brought it up, to moan that MMT keeps being brought up again!

 

[lawrence001]

Is it just me, or do the regular PFM posters in the music and audio rooms who are contributing to this thread show very strong signs of: (a) a sense of humour (often self-deprecating); (b) a sense of proportion; and (c) strike one as being the kind of people who it would be good to go to the pub with; whereas the members who are almost entirely Off-topic posters come across as more like the kind of people you wouldn't want to sit next to on the bus?

Not from what I have seen in any thread related to Brexit or the Conservative party.

 

[Martin J]

I hate them. I remember when the Off Topic room was full of fun and often made me laugh out loud.

It does PFM no credit that these threads are tolerated and seemingly encouraged by the forum owner.

 

[Seeker_UK]

As Brian has said that he does not expect Labour to be better than the Tories,

To clarify, that's in an economic sense.

 

[ff1d1l]

To clarify, that's in an economic sense.

Low bar. They've wrecked and pillaged the economy, in a way I find it difficult to believe labour will get anywhere near.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Personally, I am glad that pfm doesn’t have a ‘no politics threads’ policy. I have learned a lot about politics, economics, and other things the media doesn’t trouble itself to delve into other than by regurgitating shallow misrepresentations. I think I now understand US politics rather more, which feels important. I’ve also gained interesting, and sometimes unexpected viewpoints on Russia and China, among others. And I have found the MMT discussions fresh and thought-provoking, though lately I haven’t had the time to keep up with them all, they move so fast.

It does seem to me that some of those objecting to the tone and tenor of politics threads have themselves introduced much the same to this thread.

On the question of tone, we should be able to argue respectfully. My take is that if you can’t, you probably don’t have a good enough grasp of your own position to defend it without descending into personal unpleasantness. I do sometimes respond to rudeness and rancour with my own version, but I hope I’m not the initiator in such cases, and often my annoyance is not with the content, but the tone of the post, or the attitude of the poster.

 

[TheDecameron]

I wouldn’t describe threads about Johnson or his party as political, they’re more crime and policing.

 

[Seeker_UK]

...my annoyance is not with the content, but the tone of the post, or the attitude of the poster.

^This.

 

[NeilR]

As you’ve asked I will reply here as briefly as I can. First of all, despite all the heat and smoke, MMT is not a ‘thing’, it is not an ideology, it is at heart an observation that neither taxes nor so-called borrowing fund government spending. It is an observation derived from the logic that a government such as ours is it’s own currency issuer and cannot therefore run out of the thing that it issues. Truss et al, claim that spending on public services have to be cut because that spending is constrained by income from tax and there isn’t enough money to go around. MMT says that while there are many real constraints on government spending, tax is not one of them. MMT is not therefore something to be attained as much as a description of actual money flow as it happens here and now

Might be better to continue this in Tory Runner and Riders, happy to address any questions there to the best of my limited understanding.

Jeez, yet again another thread derailed into an MMT thread. I think that is what people are annoyed about, the constant thread derailing and endless arguments. Let’s just have one MMT thread and leave it all on there.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Jeez, you have even managed to derail this thread into an MMT thread. I think that is what people are annoyed about, the constant thread derailing and endless arguments. Let’s just have one MMT thread and leave it all on there.

Ks didn’t bring up MMT. Those complaining about MMT derailing other threads did. As a leading proponent of MMT on here, denying ks the opportunity to respond, or blaming him when he does, isn’t in the spirit of fair debate, which was what the OP was asking for.

 

[NeilR]

Ks didn’t bring up MMT. Those complaining about MMT derailing other threads did. As a leading proponent of MMT on here, denying ks the opportunity to respond, or blaming him when he does, isn’t in the spirit of fair debate, which was what the OP was asking for.

Steve, i just edited my post to make it more general.

 

[PsB]

Let’s just have one MMT thread and leave it all on there.

A good suggestion: it's what happens to all the really, really important subjects anyway. In the same way as we have consolidated BoJo/Starmer/Ukraine/Brexit/Trump/Football/F1 etc. threads, let's have a consolidated MMT thread.

 

[gintonic]

there arnt any really really important subjects on here. In reality we can all debate, navel gaze, shout (metaphorically speaking), write with emotion and passion, but we all (most of us) have a single vote in the electorate, and nothing written on here is going to change my view or the way i vote.