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A thread to catalogue the eloquence, dignity, diplomacy and wisdom of Boris Johnson: IV VONC

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Ponty said:
It’s a simple choice now. If you want the tories out, you have to vote Labour. Anything else such as Lib Dems / green just dilutes the vote and seats. In the same way many people vote Tory because they can’t bear the thought of a labour govt, if you can’t bear the thought of another tory govt, you have to vote labour.
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Not true at all. If one wants to remove Tory shit one has to vote tactically. No way in hell could Labour take Tiverton. No way in hell could Labour take Scotland. Voters seem to grasp this and huge respect needs to go to the thousands of Labour voters who fully understood they stood zero chance at anything other than removing their vile Tory with an LD vote.

I am certain there will be ever-increasing amounts of tactical voting at the next GE as younger and middle-aged voters are vastly better informed and connected via Twitter etc and the older technically illiterate tribal voters die off. There has been a huge online push to deliver the hugely positive results we saw yesterday (driven by grass roots, not parties or media). People are waking up to the fact the system is rigged and all that matters is removing Tories.
 
Tony L said:
I am certain there will be ever-increasing amounts of tactical voting at the next GE as younger and middle-aged voters are vastly better informed and connected via Twitter etc and the older technically illiterate tribal voters die off. There has been a huge online push to deliver the hugely positive results we saw yesterday. People are waking up to the fact the system is rigged and all that matters is removing Tories.
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Yes, social media, for all its echo-chamber drawbacks, is quite bad at preventing the truth from coming through somehow. The Tories and religion, both, are going to suffer for it.

Good.
 
Ponty said:
It’s a simple choice now. If you want the tories out, you have to vote Labour. Anything else such as Lib Dems / green just dilutes the vote and seats. In the same way many people vote Tory because they can’t bear the thought of a labour govt, if you can’t bear the thought of another tory govt, you have to vote labour.
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Yes, that’s what I do. I recommend it.
 
Ponty said:
That Lib Dem seat is removing a seat from the main opposition party. If removing the tories is the key objective of course. If not, carry on splitting the vote / seats.
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Splitting the vote is the point here. In Tiverton, literally every single Labour vote was wasted. If there had been more, there would have been more waste up to the point that the Tories just win again. Horses for courses, surely?

But then I am no more tribal labour than I am tribal anything. And so a democratic mix is always preferable to me.
 
Ponty said:
That Lib Dem seat is removing a seat from the main opposition party. If removing the tories is the key objective of course. If not, carry on splitting the vote / seats.
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There are many of us who would far prefer a coalition or minority Labour government. The LDs, SNP, PC and Greens would all pull Labour to the left on both civil rights/anti-authoritarianism and also electoral reform. This is certainly what I’m rooting for as a Starmer government would achieve nothing I care about. He is just another right-wing authoritarian to my eyes.
 
tonerei said:
Looking at Newsnight yesterday evening and I despair for the UK electorate. The apologists for Bojo and the Tories in the audience were mind boggling. All the covid deaths, the Dido app , all the scandals with contracts, the parties, the mess of Brexit, the NI protocol etc and they seem to be unmoveable. Continuing to make tepid excuses for Bojo. Not sure the electorate are even joining the dots that it is not just BJ it is the entire structure of the Tory party.

The Tory MP being allowed to continually interrupt people in the audience and the panel. None of the other participants engaged in that behaviour. It is so obvious and easy for a chair person to shut down.
Mick Lynch of course there would have to be a bit of Irish in him was excellent and nailed Bojo. But the audience should have been completely behind him. It was a mixed reaction. What is it with Joe Public. Here is someone representing the majority. They should all be rowing in behind him. The BA union rep on the news was also excellent. He side stepped correctly the linking of Labour and Starmer and nailed the facts. Shame on Ireland in this one with Willie Walsh as CEO.

Hope this is the first sign of the tide turning in favour of an alternative government. I hope the Lib Dems, Labour and the SNP get their act together and act together to rid the UK of the Tories. Compromise and coalition is the only way out of the mire.
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Do you mean Question Time? If so, it’s long been a forum for right-leaning and shouty audiences, since the programme’s producers intentionally, though covertly, sought out and stuffed the audience with the angry pro-Brexit demographic in the time leading up to the referendum. I don’t know if the intentional skewing still goes on, but the fact that the programme masquerades as representing where the balance of public opinion is is itself just a facet of institutional political bias.
 
Tony L said:
Not true at all. If one wants to remove Tory shit one has to vote tactically. No way in hell could Labour take Tiverton. No way in hell could Labour take Scotland. Voters seem to grasp this and huge respect needs to go to the thousands of Labour voters who fully understood they stood zero chance at anything other than removing their vile Tory with an LD vote.

I am certain there will be ever-increasing amounts of tactical voting at the next GE as younger and middle-aged voters are vastly better informed and connected via Twitter etc and the older technically illiterate tribal voters die off. There has been a huge online push to deliver the hugely positive results we saw yesterday (driven by grass roots, not parties or media). People are waking up to the fact the system is rigged and all that matters is removing Tories.
Click to expand...

Every non labour MP helps the Tory’s stay in power. Scotland is actually a great example. The SNP are doing a fabulous job of keeping the Tory’s in Westminster. Clearly they have their own agenda and good luck to them. If Scotland goes, it’s going to be a hell of a job to remove the tories from Westminster, which will only be done with a labour majority IMHO.
 
Ponty said:
That Lib Dem seat is removing a seat from the main opposition party. If removing the tories is the key objective of course. If not, carry on splitting the vote / seats.
Click to expand...

9:39

Tactical voting should worry Tories - Sir John Curtice

Curtice highlights the apparent willingness of opposition voters - particularly Labour supporters - to vote tactically.

Labour voters now seem willing to back the Lib Dems in a bid to remove Tory MPs. If this pattern continues in a general election the losses would be far greater for the Conservatives, Curtice says.
 
I liked when the studio audience member referring to Johnson “he’s had Covid, ‘e deserves a bit of loyalty”. Others say Johnson has got ‘personality’, ‘he makes us laugh’. When you have an electorate as informed and insightful as that, you know your country is ****ed in a civilisation ending sort of way.
 
droodzilla said:
Yup, pretty sure they’ll give Boris the heave-ho. The useful idiot has served his purpose. Time to replace him with a new face in a smart suit. That will probably be enough to make the Tories competitive again at the next election.
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Maybe they'll just 'forget' to pick him up from Rwanda.
 
Dave***t said:
Do you mean Question Time? If so, it’s long been a forum for right-leaning and shouty audiences, since the programme’s producers intentionally, though covertly, sought out and stuffed the audience with the angry pro-Brexit demographic in the time leading up to the referendum. I don’t know if the intentional skewing still goes on, but the fact that the programme masquerades as representing where the balance of public opinion is is itself just a facet of institutional political bias.
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Yes, QT still uses the same "audience management" company. They are best known for advertising for audience members on English Defence League Facebook groups. The aim is to produce "entertainment", rather than informed political debate. I didn't watch it last night but I've seen clips and it's noticeable that, good though he is, Mick Lynch's impact is diluted in the shouty environment QT now encourages.
 
Dave***t said:
Do you mean Question Time? If so, it’s long been a forum for right-leaning and shouty audiences, since the programme’s producers intentionally, though covertly, sought out and stuffed the audience with the angry pro-Brexit demographic in the time leading up to the referendum. I don’t know if the intentional skewing still goes on, but the fact that the programme masquerades as representing where the balance of public opinion is is itself just a facet of institutional political bias.
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Apart from a few snippets I haven’t watched it since Robin Day handed in his bow-tie. I can’t see the point in watching people with diametrically opposing views shouting at each other and failing to answer questions posed by half-wits. The Westminster Hour on R4 on Sunday evenings demonstrates that it’s possible for political opponents to debate issues sensibly and calmly, but QT is essentially just a bear-garden.
 
Joe Hutch said:
Somehow I doubt it. Whoever replaced Boris (and he won’t go without a fight) would face the same existential dilemma. Are the Tories a free-market low-tax party, or are they a levelling-up, interventionist party?
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But that's just the latest iteration of the Conservative Party's core dilemma (how do you get the majority to vote against their best interests?) and they've done just fine so far.
 
TheDecameron said:
I liked when the studio audience member referring to Johnson “he’s had Covid, ‘e deserves a bit of loyalty”. Others say Johnson has got ‘personality’, ‘he makes us laugh’. When you have an electorate as informed and insightful as that, you know your country is ****ed in a civilisation ending sort of way.
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Covid had it`s chance to clean up it`s image and become a force for good - it failed.
 
Ponty said:
Every non labour MP helps the Tory’s stay in power. Scotland is actually a great example. The SNP are doing a fabulous job of keeping the Tory’s in Westminster. Clearly they have their own agenda and good luck to them. If Scotland goes, it’s going to be a hell of a job to remove the tories from Westminster, which will only be done with a labour majority IMHO.
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Ponty, I think Brian's hacked your account.
 
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