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Ukraine III

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poppop said:
Cav, he doesn't have a vote. BUT if/when he threatens the "nuclear" option again because he isn't happy, there may be a lot of encouragement, by some, to prevent membership. Perhaps? There is no "no fly zone" because he sets the nuclear agenda.
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i doubt many in positions of authority give any credibility to his nuclear posturing.
 
DimitryZ said:
My sense is that Ukraine may be willing to give up parts of Donbas (about a third of its regional boundaries) that have been under Russian occupation since 2014. The place has been largely ruined by Russia and is essentially unlivable.
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Maybe, but I do not think Putin meant just part.
 
ks.234 said:
My position has been consistently for negotiations. You have been hostile to that position. Are you now for negotiations, or are you still hostile to negotiations?
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So why are you calling for something that's been already happening for two weeks?

You have studiosly avoided answering...
 
C4 News/Jon Snow looking into the prospect of nuclear war in a one hour special right now.

PS No need to worry, Boris Johnson and the rest of the cabinet will all be safe in their underground bunkers.
 
gints said:
Maybe, but I do not think Putin meant just part.
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Putin recognized the fake Donbas "republics" in their full administrative borders, so I am sure he wants at least that.

However, it's VERY important to not allow Putin to legally gain more territory through this invasion.
 
DimitryZ said:
So why are you calling for something that's been already happening for two weeks?

You have studiosly avoided answering...
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I have been calling for what has been obvious for weeks, so your question answers itself, that it has been already happening only makes your hostility to what has been obvious for weeks all the more difficult to understand.

If it has been so obvious for weeks, why your hostility to what was so obvious?

You seem desperate to find something to be hostile about?
 
cooky1257 said:
Just to clarify: Are you in favour of peace/ ceasefire negotiations taking place at this moment in time?
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Of course. Anything else would be insane and literally the exact opposite of all my political instincts for the last 40 years and pretty much everything I've said on here in the last 20 years.
 
ks.234 said:
I have been calling for what has been obvious for weeks, that it has been already happening only makes your hostility to what has been obvious for weeks all the more difficult to understand.

If it has been so obvious for weeks, why your hostility to what was so obvious?

You seem desperate to find something to be hostile about?
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You can continue the BS about me...Or actually think through what it is you have been calling for Ukraine to do.

Unless you are truly unaware that ceasefire negotiations have been going on for two weeks, you must mean something by "peace talks" that is different from actual negotiations taking place.

What is it?
 
DimitryZ said:
Putin recognized the fake Donbas "republics" in their full administrative borders, so I am sure he wants at least that.

However, it's VERY important to not allow Putin to legally gain more territory through this invasion.
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Yes, it is important, because your position at negotiations can only be as strong as strong your position in battlefield.
 
ks.234 said:
The hostility to any suggestion of peace talks predates that
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It's not hostility to peace talks but a suspicion that Russia will approach them in bad faith and that they will not got anywhere until / unless external events force Putin to move his position. Because history tells us that's how Putin behaves and trying to understand his position or indulge him in rational debate just doesn't work.
 
matthewr said:
Of course. Anything else would be insane and literally the exact opposite of all my political instincts for the last 40 years and pretty much everything I've said on here in the last 20 years.
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So in the absence of any credible solutions from you you must accept that your own position also offers nothing more than mere platitudes.
 
matthewr said:
It's not hostility to peace talks but a suspicion that Russia will approach them in bad faith and that they will not got anywhere until / unless external events force Putin to move his position. Because history tells us that's how Putin behaves and trying to understand his position or indulge him in rational debate just doesn't work.
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And yet some people seem to think he is rational!
 
DimitryZ said:
You can continue the BS about me...Or actually think through what it is you have been calling for Ukraine to do.

Unless you are truly unaware that ceasefire negotiations have been going on for two weeks, you must mean something by "peace talks" that is different from actual negotiations taking place.

What is it?
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The simple facts are these; I have consistently been calling for negotiations for some time. You have been consistently extremely hostile to that call for negotiations. The fact that negotiations have been going on only confirms that Ukraine also agrees that negotiations are desirable. If the Ukrainian position and my own are in agreement, then there is no contradiction. On the other hand, your hostility to negotiations a few days ago and your now apparent change of heart due in the light of the Ukrainian position, is contradictory. The only question then, is do you still maintain your hostility to negotiations, or do you now agree with the Ukrainian position that is accepting of negotiations? Or are you only interested in marinating hostility?
 
matthewr said:
It's not hostility to peace talks but a suspicion that Russia will approach them in bad faith and that they will not got anywhere until / unless external events force Putin to move his position. Because history tells us that's how Putin behaves and trying to understand his position or indulge him in rational debate just doesn't work.
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As already stated, if Putin is hostile to peace talks then they will obviously not take place. If there is any possibility of peace talks, there will first have to be the usual ‘talks about talks’. If Putin is not willing to compromise, those talks will fail.
 
After the cringeworthy Putin performance in Moscow Stadium to rally home support yesterday, I would not put much faith in talks at the current time.

I would sadly agree with Truss that they are a stalling tactic in order to regroup as well as a PR stunt.
 
Minio said:
After the cringeworthy Putin performance in Moscow Stadium yesterday I would not put much faith in talks at the current time.
I would sadly agree with Truss that they are a stalling tactic in order to regroup as well as a PR stunt.
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I suspect the longer that the war goes on the further his relations with the Russian public will deteriorate.
 
Surely talks could only function as a stalling tactic if they were accompanied by a ceasefire- Truss is an idiot.
 
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