Ukraine III

[cooky1257]

Only if you read my words with a staggering amount of bad faith and basically think I am a) bonkers and b) a dick.

None of the above.
Just to clarify: Are you in favour of peace/ ceasefire negotiations taking place at this moment in time?

 

[matthewr]

Dimitry - do we have any idea as to whether anything substantive is coming out of these talks or is it simply 'window dressing' allowing the Russians to appear to be doing something?

The talks have been widely covered in all our newspapers with differing degrees of seriousness and depth. E.g. see here in the FT https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-d375-4817-be67-802b7fa77ef1

 

[ks.234]

So your wish has been met for two weeks, as negotiations take place.

Yet, you are here every day, asking for "peace talks."

So it's logical to assume that negotiations that have been taking place aren't what you would like to see.

It was you who was so hostile to the very suggestion of peace talks, if you are now in favour of them, why the hostility in the first place? If I have been asking for peace talks every day, why have you been so aggressive in opposing that ask?

You are all over the place here

 

[ks.234]

The talks have been widely covered in all our newspapers with differing degrees of seriousness and depth. E.g. see here in the FT https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-d375-4817-be67-802b7fa77ef1

That was 3 days ago. The hostility to any suggestion of peace talks predates that

 

[ks.234]

None of the above.
Just to clarify: Are you in favour of peace/ ceasefire negotiations taking place at this moment in time?

Yes, a lot of shifting of position going on here

 

[Romulus]

Actually, the negotiations started with no preconditions.

Ukranians certainly went into negotiations without getting even the minimum sign of goodwill from Russia - not even a temporary ceasefire or humanitarian corridors.

As the Russian advance stalled, Ukranians reported that Russian negotiators stopped using ultimatums and the process became more serious.

Strange that these 'negotiations' are carrying on however there is no cease fire from the Russians side as sign of good faith, or is that too much to ask from them...?

 

[ks.234]

Actually, the negotiations started with no preconditions.

Ukranians certainly went into negotiations without getting even the minimum sign of goodwill from Russia - not even a temporary ceasefire or humanitarian corridors.

As the Russian advance stalled, Ukranians reported that Russian negotiators stopped using ultimatums and the process became more serious.

And yet you were still hostile to negotiations

 

[TheDecameron]

80% of Russian Air Force not committed is a very clarifying bit of intelligence. Putin's Air Force, as long as it is in Air Force-in-being, is a valuable and irreplaceable asset, a great source of power. Committing it would be an act with a potential to lose the war for him, in an afternoon.

He may have been advised to hold it back in anticipation of a NATO intervention. It would not surprise me if he actually relished the prospect in order to try out his hypersonic weapons and tactical nuclear warheads, that the weak liberals would cower at the first sign of his resolve.

 

[DimitryZ]

Strange that these 'negotiations' are carrying on however there is no cease fire from the Russians side as sign of good faith, or is that too much to ask from them...?

It seems Russians initially wanted an unconditional surrender and partition of Ukraine, but as they have met with stalemate on the battlefield, they hopefully started to actually negotiate. It would be a great sign of actual goodwill on the Russian side if they offered a day-long stand down on the day they negotiate. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[Plink]

Exactly. But I believe Putin has no intention for peace right now. He wants to practice artillery and missile targeting. That’s why all of this peace talk is a joke. It hasn’t even been a month yet. He is the aggressor without worry about domestic attacks and it would be very easy to negotiate a pause in resupply on both sides and a pause in the shelling/missiles.

 

[DimitryZ]

And yet you were still hostile to negotiations

Jaw-jaw is always a good thing to do.

However, the progress of any negotiations is coupled to the situation on the battlefield.

 

[ks.234]

Jaw-jaw is always a good thing to do.

However, the progress of any negotiations is coupled to the situation on the battlefield.

If you are now in favour of negotiations, are we now in agreement? If not, what are you disagreeing about?

 

[gints]

Some here talking about peace negotiations like war break out as some sort of accident. Do you really think Putin considering himself so week that he is going to step down without a single objective achieved why he actually started war???

 

[DimitryZ]

If you are now in favour of negotiations, are we now in agreement? If not, what are you disagreeing about?

I was hopeful about the negotiations when they started, which was a long time ago.

However, as they went on while Russia was murdering civilians and destroying hospitals, I came to believe that Russia is not negotiating in good faith.

As their battlefield position deteriorated, they seem to have gotten more serious about these talks.

My conclusion, therefore, is the fastest way to get to an actual ceasefire is to inflict more military damage on the invading army and more economic damage on the invading nation.

This is how wars have been fought throughout history.

Your position, however, is curious. Seemingly unaware of long ceasefire negotiations taking place all along, you are here every day calling for "peace talks." What do you mean by these words that Ukranians have not been doing?

Seems like they have been jaw-jawing with Russians at every opportunity.

 

[cooky1257]

Have you looked at a map recently, in particular the southe east of Ukraine?

 

[gints]

Not a single major city.
Crimea? Donbass? They already was their.

 

[gints]

By last report Putin still demands Crimea is Russia, Donbass no part of Ukraine, give up army forces. Is it possible accept it for Ukraine?

 

[DimitryZ]

Have you looked at a map recently, in particular the southe east of Ukraine?

WWII offers interesting comparison to today's Russian invasion.

Compare the battlefield maps three weeks into operation Barbarossa and the current Russian advancement into Ukraine. Let's just say that their performance has been underwhelming.

 

[DimitryZ]

By last report Putin still demands Crimea is Russia, Donbass no part of Ukraine, give up army forces. Is it possible accept it for Ukraine?

My sense is that Ukraine may be willing to give up parts of Donbas (about a third of its regional boundaries) that have been under Russian occupation since 2014. The place has been largely ruined by Russia and is essentially unlivable.

Crimea is very different. Ukraine will never give it up, but may agree to freeze current situation for N years.

 

[ks.234]

I was hopeful about the negotiations when they started, which was a long time ago.

However, as they went on while Russia was murdering civilians and destroying hospitals, I came to believe that Russia is not negotiating in good faith.

As their battlefield position deteriorated, they seem to have gotten more serious about these talks.

My conclusion, therefore, is the fastest way to get to an actual ceasefire is to inflict more military damage on the invading army and more economic damage on the invading nation.

This is how wars have been fought throughout history.

Your position, however, is curious. Seemingly unaware of long ceasefire negotiations taking place all along, you are here every day calling for "peace talks." What do you mean by these words that Ukranians have not been doing?

Seems like they have been jaw-jawing with Russians at every opportunity.

My position has been consistently for negotiations. You have been hostile to that position. Are you now for negotiations, or are you still hostile to negotiations?