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Is there any point in a valve DAC

Dowser said:
So bold Jez - I’m sure that’s why Glenn Croft, in 1995 when I sent him a stock Micro II to service, told me the tube regulator needed replacing - he recommended a solid state one. I asked if it sounded as good, his response was, „no, but it is a quarter of the price and lives forever, the tube regulation needs servicing every 15-20 years as the HT drops off“. Guess which I went for, and exists x4 in my current Mega Micro :)

i admit to never comparing the same device with both types of PSU- have you?
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SS regulation is so much better than valved that it is not worthy of comparison. Literally an order of magnitude (or more) better in every way.
There is only one reason for using valve regulation and it's the same one as for using valve rectification... to part the gullible from their money.
 
Greyandy said:
As it happens... I do like it!
I've just replaced the valves in my Musical Fidelity X-10v3
The effect on my imagination and conformational bias has been huge and I'm sat here enjoying listening to music through it.
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I owned 6 of these - one for each source.

I am glad they are gone.
 
Greyandy said:
Could you not just have stopped at one or two when you realised they weren't for you?!
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The problem was I thought they WERE for me. Heard a real "improvement."

Once I removed them after a year, the only real difference I heard was slightly lighter bass.
 
DimitryZ said:
The problem was I thought they WERE for me. Heard a real "improvement."

Once I removed them after a year, the only real difference I heard was slightly lighter bass.
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Making decisions about equipment based on what you hear will never do. Far better to adopt a dogmatic approach based on pure theory that you read somewhere, then you'll never go wrong.
 
Greyandy said:
... I've just replaced the valves in my Musical Fidelity X-10v3 ...
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Had they failed? Those 6112s are tough, long-lived little sods. Certainly no point rolling the very few variants that exist - they were made to a very consistent standard, so much so, I wonder if they all came off the same production line and were just printed differently?

If you haven't already, bin the bipolar electrolytics on the outputs - pointless, and they make the sound worse than it is already.

And, yep, I owned one, yep I think it was pointless - I tweaked it with better components & linear pSU - the best it ever sounded was slightly worse than no-X-10v3! That said, if you do happen to have a significant impedance mismatch between two components, I can imagine scenarios where it might actually do something useful...
 
earlofsodbury said:
Had they failed? Those 6112s are tough, long-lived little sods. Certainly no point rolling the very few variants that exist - they were made to a very consistent standard, so much so, I wonder if they all came off the same production line and were just printed differently?

If you haven't already, bin the bipolar electrolytics on the outputs - pointless, and they make the sound worse than it is already.

And, yep, I owned one, yep I think it was pointless - I tweaked it with better components & linear pSU - the best it ever sounded was slightly worse than no-X-10v3! That said, if you do happen to have a significant impedance mismatch between two components, I can imagine scenarios where it might actually do something useful...
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I replaced the 6112's with some 6948's from Mike at Rock Grotto. Apparently the 'same' valve but a higher spec military version. I have only had the X-10 for a few months so have no idea about it's previous hours use but based on a published life of 100,000 hours (about 11 years constant use), the fact that MF recommend leaving the unit on all the time and that it's about 20 years old I thought that for £30 and 10 mins with the 'iron I'd pop some new ones in. Definite improvement right from the go, going to be interesting to see how it sounds with a few more hours use.
I have a Swagman PSU plus going to get the Rock Grotto upgrade kit.
I'm very impressed with the SQ improvement and intreated to see what differences can be made with a bit of tinkering.
 
montesquieu said:
In short, they're all crazy but our Jez ...
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90% or more of punters are conned into believing lies whilst 90% or more of manufacturers, reviewers and advertisers produce all those lies.

I'm simply a very very rare example of someone who both knows what they're talking about and is prepared to put their head above the parapet and say that much believed by audiophiles and almost everything said in mags etc is all bollox.

Once the industry realised they did not have to stop after selling you a source, amp and speakers but could make loadsa money conning people into buying magic cables, enchanted fuses, silly racks, dumb **** cable lifters and even wooden boxes of soil (popular with audiophools in Transylvania for some reason) and also tell a pack of lies about things like valve rectifiers and that they need £30 each phono plugs etc etc there was no way of putting the profit genie back in the bottle....

The closest analogy I can think of is the cosmetics industry where women are charged a fortune for so called "age reversing serums" etc etc and no amount of expose''s by Which? magazine etc telling them they don't work and Boots cold cream is only £1 and just as "effective" makes any difference to sales as the punters WANT TO BELIEVE;)

As an EE who specialises in designing amps (but not selling no Stuart Frazer), forums etc are rather like existing in a world where 90% of people believe in Qanon and 5G conspiracies and as the scientist you are regarded as the dangerous nutter!:rolleyes:

.....hence there goes another "post of the day" which will get no likes and possibly a few offensive replies 'cos "the truth? they can't handle the truth!!" :p:p
 
Here are Lukasz Fikus's experiments and thoughts on the Naim CDS and Naim CD3 players, along with his tweaking experiments to include his Valve Output stage, of that time, instead of the Naim Op-Amps. This was pre-Lampizator being setup as a company - he is experimenting as a hobbyist, with no commercial gain. He thinks these Naim players are great in many respects and gives credit where due for the design layouts and parts used. But they can be tweaked and improved upon and he even suggests an equivalent tweaked DAC chipped $50 Philips/Marantz player can get you 95% of the way there in comparison.
 
Zombie said:
The CD63 I modded stood up very well to players well over a grand. Better regulators and the diff mod where the big ones, exotic clocks etc not so much if anything.
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Wouldn't a decent separate dac been easier? I see adverts for upgrading cd players and it puzzles me why?
 
the caretaker said:
Did you sell them?
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Yes, for pennies on the dollar.

I think the person resold them one by one to those who valued them and expected them to improve the sound of their systems.

I then tried better tube buffers based on the classic Marantz circuit. Same result.

I have four of those, because at one time I had two balanced mono blocks per side and was using stereo buffers with adapters to do mono balanced buffering.

Anyone in New England is welcome to them for free.
 
paulbysea said:
I am wondering when we will get the first steampunk DAC? Which I guess would be powered by a small steam engine in your listening room. ;);)
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Abbasaudio units come close. They even have bits of antique wire glued to the modern components. Handmade wire bundles from antique copper, all components directionally oriented, valve rectification and regulation as well as DAC clock with a valve interface.

At least he seems fun and doesn't charge an arm and a leg.
 
the caretaker said:
Wouldn't a decent separate dac been easier? I see adverts for upgrading cd players and it puzzles me why?
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I did it for fun. I had one KIS and one SE model. Learnt what makes a difference with CD players. Make them heavier, get better regs and clean up the dirt on the signal. Different clocks etc. didn't make any difference at all for me.
My next planned move was to try what better regulation would do with the laser board. But then I called it a day and sold them both and got a 99CDP instead. Then I ripped my CDs and bought a Squeezebox. To fiddle about with digital stuff nowadays you need the precision of a brain surgeon. Not my pint of beer.
 
Zombie said:
I did it for fun. I had one KIS and one SE model. Learnt what makes a difference with CD players. Make them heavier, get better regs and clean up the dirt on the signal. Different clocks etc. didn't make any difference at all for me.
My next planned move was to try what better regulation would do with the laser board. But then I called it a day and sold them both and got a 99CDP instead. Then I ripped my CDs and bought a Squeezebox. To fiddle about with digital stuff nowadays you need the precision of a brain surgeon. Not my pint of beer.
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I have a 99 cdp too..fine cd player
 
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