I have a problem with putting a vibrating transformer based amplifier in a vibrating loudspeaker.
Why does it need a vibrating transformer and why does it have to be in the speaker rather than external on the back?
I have a problem with putting a vibrating transformer based amplifier in a vibrating loudspeaker.
I have been using ATC50ASls and room correction for about 15 years now, first with a TacT2.2x and now with a Trinnov Amethyst. A few observations:
1. You can set the Trinnov just to deal with the discrepancies between right and left channels if you prefer to retain the core sound of your system/room. It surely must be better to avoid a (in my case, in a pretty symmetrical room) a 8db variation between left and right channels below 200hz. My ears tell me it is
2. Not all room EQ is created equal. The Trinnov 3D mic which (I have been told) allows it to determine direct versus reflected sound produces much better results than TacT ever did.
Rodney Gold (RIP) tried many room correction devices and until he heard Trinnov said ‘they are all the same’
3. After I bought a PSA Directstream DAC to partner with the Trinnov and PSA memory transport I thought I might as well test direct I2S transport-dac versus Trinnov in the chain. The latter is miles ahead and I may sell the DAC. In fact the DAC in the Trinnov is pretty good
in my case Trinnov support has been amazing. No stiff drink required to psych myself up (unlike with TacT where you’d need a whole bottle to hand!)
Salman
I spent ages getting room EQ right with TacT (and massive techie frustrations around ‘port not recognised’).It's all in the implementation, most UK domestic rooms are not great. Mine is no exception athough there are no gross peaks or suck outs. I spent a lot of time getting DSP right, but I certainly wouldn't be without it. Switching it out is quite amusing.
I can honestly say that I wanted them to work for me, really wanted them to. I have a Naim high end/LP12 system into Obs 2 and was very keen to reduce the number of boxes in my room, which is at ridiculous ‘Wife enraging’ levels.
You've missed the whole point of the 8c's then...
I had Lee @SS set mine up, and at first didn't like what we were hearing. Then I was given a crash course in REW and the Harmon Curve research papers. From this we probably made 5/6 curves which were getting close. Then I spent a day or two fine tuning, and finally found what I like. IF I were to simply accept how they were initially setup, I'd not have bought them.
So this is the perfect example of how we all hear things differently, and have different priorities: I had pretty much the same system. After a Kii3 demo in the same room as my Shahinian Obs and Naim oil rig, I was obliged to buy the Kiis - to my ears they demolished my existing system. Why? Far, far more resolving - went deeper, cleaner, and disclosed so much more detail (vocals suddenly revealed as double-tracked etc.). Much better scale as well. All this in a big and very high room. The Kiis recently astonished a mate of mine who, in a past life, spent a couple of years selling big Wilsons, Mark Levinson etc. in central London store. He couldn't believe the price/performance ratio.
I don't care what conclusions people come to, but IMHO they don't have a horse in the race until they have heard the speaker in question at home against their own kit, and from as unbiased a viewpoint as possible (I certainly didn't want to like the Kiis - they cost me a lot of £££). Indeed it was the D&D/Kii discussion on here that convinced me to listen for myself. Its just speculation otherwise.
One benefit of the Kii is that there's no microphone / REW etc. needed. Box count reduction was not a major issue for me, it was a welcome by-product.
I must admit to not agreeing with your point of view on this board many times in the past, but on this, I think you are spot on. I very rarely buy new, never in audio and not much in the rest of my life (!), but with these I was prepared to do so, simply as I knew that expert help and advice was needed. The guy was certainly an expert, was in my listening room seeing what equipment I usually used, measured the hell out of everything and used my music to set them up and demo them. Once again, not sure what else the average punter could do to ‘get’ them.And you are expecting the average 50+ year old audiophile with little or no expertise in digital tech to go through all of this? Let alone finding a competent dealer who would understand and do what you have done? It pretty much puts these types of speaker in the techie ownership category.
And you are expecting the average 50+ year old audiophile with little or no expertise in digital tech to go through all of this? Let alone finding a competent dealer who would understand and do what you have done? It pretty much puts these types of speaker in the techie ownership category.
Agreed, in part!People like what they like, there’s nothing wrong with preferring a presentation which “uses” the room as opposed to one which is a more accurate rendition of the recording/signal.
I’ve been using REW for years and it is fairly straightforward for someone with a techie background to get a reading. Actually understanding what the curves mean and how they correlate with what you hear is another matter altogether. Fairly easy to look at a frequency response and spot some bumps and suck outs but then at what smoothing to view, whether to use a single measurement or range and how they are sloped, the orientation of the mic, the effect of filters on phase, frequency and delay etc etc. I think it’s a pretty steep learning curve and for most people not that easy. Only the very clever would call it trivially easy, although sometimes things appear easy because we don’t fully understand them.I'm 51 now, was 50 when i got them, so yes i would expect anyone to be able to spend a day learning, REW is easy to grasp if you put your mind to it and the 8c's are also fairly simple to master once you get your head around the setup.
Very true, although there are some excellent installers out there, the problem comes when you decide to have the speakers in another room or maybe move house. Do you then have to get the installer back. Personally, I would only buy this sort of product if I could set them up myself, which as it happens I could, but for many they would be reliant on their dealer. Choice of dealer then becomes as crucial as choice of speaker with some of these designs.And you are expecting the average 50+ year old audiophile with little or no expertise in digital tech to go through all of this? Let alone finding a competent dealer who would understand and do what you have done? It pretty much puts these types of speaker in the techie ownership category.
Although the hobby is called ‘high-fidelity’, set-up of the 8Cs takes minutes, because they are constant directivity, they don’t need acoustic traps, just tell the loudspeaker how far away it is from the front and side walls ( which adjusts bass output and the delay on mid/treble ) via its own APP, because they really. are full-range it is sensible to run an REW sweep which also works out the parameters of any filters and that’s it.People like what they like, there’s nothing wrong with preferring a presentation which “uses” the room as opposed to one which is a more accurate rendition of the recording/signal.
Why does PFM still not have a popcorn emoji?!they don’t need acoustic traps, just tell the loudspeaker how far away it is from the front and side walls