Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
That's down to a lot more open space than in the UK and thus fewer nimbys.
Cancelled HS2
- Thread starter puddlesplasher
- Start date
That's down to a lot more open space than in the UK and thus fewer nimbys.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Hang on a minute. Are you saying Britain is a gigantic version of Shanghai? That Hermann Goering bombed the crap out of French wheat fields before Theresa could only dream of running in them? You’re ‘avin a laugh.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Are you sure? They are Ready Rubbed after all.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
No. What I'm saying is that there are historic and geographic reasons for the rail systems in the countries have been faster, more modern and all round better than ours as well; it's not just the singular, political reasons you described.
[edit]
And no. Most of the damage in France was courtesy of allied bombing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27703724
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
Wasnt that built on EU loans? Have you been on it recently? it is showing its age and looking tatty.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Not to mention the Victorian legacy. All those tunnels and viaducts, cuttings and bridges built in the heyday when steam was cutting-edge technology and everybody was investing in the railways. So our infrastructure is based on legacy product from the dawn of industrialisation and harder to update without binning it and starting again. Which, as was mentioned upthread, should have been tackled by Thatcher with North Sea oil money.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
infrastructure! operators and infrastructure have been separate for far too long. I should say, i use the trains alot, both long distance and local, and i have seen a distinct improvement in reliability of the trains and infrastructure. Although bits of the elderly infrastructure still fail, i do see improvements. The failures i see and poor punctuality are down to logistics and running the service.
High Speed rail needs all the curves and bends in our infrastructure ironed out.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I have been on lately, on the AVE system. Remarkable civil engineering on new routes miles away from existing ones.
It makes the whole H2S debacle look a bit desperate
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
me too and the experience was ok, they had plenty of open space to build on. Not entirely reliable - i endured delays and cancellations.
Not sure we have the details yet on how it might be possible to do something even more stupid and less in the interests of the general population but it is increasingly looking like we will be soon finding out.
If it is cancelled that is good news for my town which will suffer less traffic, noise, green space shrinkage, taxes for infrastructure,... and it won't devalue my house. At one point they were proposing a 16m high viaduct to avoid cutting off one half of the town from the other with level crossing that would be closed most of the time. Having lived in a city with trains on viaducts I seemed to be rather more aware of the downside of this compared to most around here. It seemed to fade away with the squeeze on money but quite how they proposed to get over the ponds, canals and rivers on the outskirts wasn't clear. Perhaps a bit of viaduct and closed level crossings to get the worst of both?
A couple of days ago I met a group of people working for an HS2 contractor a bit further south and while they didn't know it looks like there may be a short section from Birmingham up to East Midlands Parkway near the airport and then stopping before the water, built up areas and expense. The East Midlands Hub at Toton getting the boot which was of course pretty much the only significant positive around here to set against the many negatives.
If it is cancelled that is good news for my town which will suffer less traffic, noise, green space shrinkage, taxes for infrastructure,... and it won't devalue my house. At one point they were proposing a 16m high viaduct to avoid cutting off one half of the town from the other with level crossing that would be closed most of the time. Having lived in a city with trains on viaducts I seemed to be rather more aware of the downside of this compared to most around here. It seemed to fade away with the squeeze on money but quite how they proposed to get over the ponds, canals and rivers on the outskirts wasn't clear. Perhaps a bit of viaduct and closed level crossings to get the worst of both?
A couple of days ago I met a group of people working for an HS2 contractor a bit further south and while they didn't know it looks like there may be a short section from Birmingham up to East Midlands Parkway near the airport and then stopping before the water, built up areas and expense. The East Midlands Hub at Toton getting the boot which was of course pretty much the only significant positive around here to set against the many negatives.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Explain this then,
Franco, Hitler, Mussolini: later, great trains
Neville Chamberlain: rubbish trains
and don’t come ‘ere telling me it was down to Bomber Harris or Marshal Zhukov.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
It's the uniforms. Can't run a railway without uniforms.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Discipline, it’s all about discipline and a strong will.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Don’t forget Japan.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
You leave Hirohito out of it.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Yeah but the drivers get pay docked if they leave 10 seconds early!
tones
Tones deaf
Actually, it's all about seeing railways as valuable infrastructure that will last for many decades, and being prepared to invest in them. The Swiss have always seen things this way. The old joke is that Switzerland is in reality one large train set, in which succeeding generations of fathers and sons have added new lines and rolling stock.
A small example is taking place outside my office. The Waldenburgerbahn (WB), which runs up the valley, was the narrowest-gauge line in Swizzieland at 75 cm (usually only found in mining and logging railways). The WB was acquired some years ago by the BLT, one of Basel's tram operators. It then bit an entire arsenal of bullets and decided to convert the line to metre-gauge, the standard for Swiss tram lines and nearly all of the mountain narrow-gauge lines. Although only 13 Km of track is involved, this is an enormous undertaking, that includes major infrastructure developments and renaturation. So, since Easter, we have had all manner of enormous machines digging all sorts of enormous holes here, there and everywhere (are they going to bury it? I wondered). The new line is scheduled to go into operation in December 2022. In the meantime, we have to live with bendy buses for transport and constantly changing roads (my bike path home regularly changes). But it'll be great when it's finished.
A much bigger example was the boring of a new Albula Tunnel for the Rhätische Ban in Graubünden. This is part of the World Heritage-listed Albula line (Chur - St. Moritz) with its trade mark Landwasser Viaduct. The century-old tunnel is sadly in need of repair, so the RhB decided to bore a new one, parallel to the old one, and redo the old one as an escape tunnel.
https://www.rhb.ch/en/company/projects-dossiers/rebuilding-of-the-albula-tunnel
From the earlier tunnel, they remembered a particular waterlogged stratum that nearly brought the whole enterprise to disaster, and they were ready for it. They drove pipes into it and pumped in brine at something like -35°C to freeze it, before they started tunneling through it. The new tunnel will be ready in 2024.
For anyone who loves railways the Rhätische Bahn is an absolute must.
A small example is taking place outside my office. The Waldenburgerbahn (WB), which runs up the valley, was the narrowest-gauge line in Swizzieland at 75 cm (usually only found in mining and logging railways). The WB was acquired some years ago by the BLT, one of Basel's tram operators. It then bit an entire arsenal of bullets and decided to convert the line to metre-gauge, the standard for Swiss tram lines and nearly all of the mountain narrow-gauge lines. Although only 13 Km of track is involved, this is an enormous undertaking, that includes major infrastructure developments and renaturation. So, since Easter, we have had all manner of enormous machines digging all sorts of enormous holes here, there and everywhere (are they going to bury it? I wondered). The new line is scheduled to go into operation in December 2022. In the meantime, we have to live with bendy buses for transport and constantly changing roads (my bike path home regularly changes). But it'll be great when it's finished.
A much bigger example was the boring of a new Albula Tunnel for the Rhätische Ban in Graubünden. This is part of the World Heritage-listed Albula line (Chur - St. Moritz) with its trade mark Landwasser Viaduct. The century-old tunnel is sadly in need of repair, so the RhB decided to bore a new one, parallel to the old one, and redo the old one as an escape tunnel.
https://www.rhb.ch/en/company/projects-dossiers/rebuilding-of-the-albula-tunnel
From the earlier tunnel, they remembered a particular waterlogged stratum that nearly brought the whole enterprise to disaster, and they were ready for it. They drove pipes into it and pumped in brine at something like -35°C to freeze it, before they started tunneling through it. The new tunnel will be ready in 2024.
For anyone who loves railways the Rhätische Bahn is an absolute must.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Its remarkable that small countries are prepared to take on infrastructure commitments of this scale. The most remarkable perhaps are the Faroe Islands with about 50km of road tunnels, some deep under the sea, with the same population as Torquay. They even have an undersea roundabout-
Iceland similarly has some remarkable civil engineering with one deep undersea tunnel running for 6km down to a depth of 165m. They have the population of Dundee! I’m afraid we are both stingy and shortsighted by comparison.