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Cancelled HS2

P

puddlesplasher

pfm Member
No surprise then really. If levelling up was really a part of the Conservative mantra they should have started from the North to Birmingham and then onto London. No start from London to Birmingham and then cancel due to high costs.personally don’t think it should be built at all. They have left themselves open to being London centric and not caring about the North.
 
I would rather the money went into better intercity links between northern cities & proper electrification from Sheffield to London. I don’t really need to get into the capital in less than 2 hours but a 40 minute train to Manchester would be good.
 
The section of hs2 which connected Leeds to the East coast mainline will be cancelled I assume. In the village where I live we will be awaiting Thursday's IRP announcement and will be having the mother of all parties if yhis is true. The threat of this vanity project has had a big toll on the emotional well being of people along the line. I feel especially sorry for the residents of the new housing development in Mexborough who may have gone through all this for nothing.
 
They'll spend tuppence ha'penny on the Manchester-Leeds line, which still won't support fast trains, and call it levelling up! It looks like Leeds will be given the sop of a tram system, but you can't travel anywhere else by tram! The cash is being diverted to Tory consituencies instead for their infrastracture projects.

Frankly HS2 should have been built/started in the 80s, when the French began to build TGV, but Thatcher was more keen on shutting the railways and it should have run the full length of the country. Instead we only got electrification of the East Coast Line and more motorways. The south coast - midlands - leeds journey is still diesel! We're now seeing the cost of trying to catch up a bit on the failure to invest over 40 years.
 
Bananahead said:
Haven't you heard? The government can spend as much as it wants, on cronyism without consequences.
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Edited for accuracy? :D If people (who voted this lot in) haven't learned by now that all these big statements- including "Levelling Up" were cynical ploys to win votes short term by now, then goodness knows what will get through to them.

And anyone who disagrees with me can have a Boris Garden Bridge and a Boris Bus for free as great examples of his incompetence and blatant squandering of money.

Other examples exist of course.

The UK Public Transport sector has always been a mess as it was designed from the outset to be a money making machine for shareholders, as opposed to a system providing reliable services to the public.

The European way is better. France is a great example with it's TGV.

In my view, Transport and Health must be ring-fenced from the political push-pull that does no good at all and be developed with a long-term strategy.

Benefits to the environment and well-being of the UK are obvious.
 
I've listened to the arguments that HS2 will provide additional north/south capacity which is desperately needed and avoid the network becoming crippled through lack of capacity. Those seem to be the only ones to have any traction to my mind, albeit given the comparatively short distance between, say, London and Birmingham, a very high speed line seems unnecessary. Surely just provide one with regular speeds (say 125mph) and lots of capacity. And as for speed, provide in-cab signalling on the ECML and you can quickly bring big sections up to 140mph. This was built into the electrification back in the late 80s and the rolling stock is all 140mph capable. Indeed, the class 91/Mk 4 trains which are now being scrapped at the end of their service lives of some 30 years have spent their entire lives being "throttled back" to 125mph.

So ultimately, what's HS2 for? If it ends up being just to Birmingham, pretty much bugger all, I'd say. If only to Manchester and Liverpool...a little more use given the doubled distance. But I still don't buy it. A 2 hour service to Manc gives me all the speed I need, frankly. It's hardly Paris to Bordeaux. Yesterday I did London/Edinburgh which, at 4 hours 20 was a bit long (the Azuma seats don't help) but some 140 running on the line might get that down a bit...

I've never understood the argument that this project was to benefit those in the north. Surely it's as much or more use to those in London who want to go there and get the hell out asap! (I speak as a northerner). Why is this seen as more important than a proper high speed link between Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds/Hull. For me this would be the single best thing for the north of England. Then it might be able to compete with the metropolis. But we don't want that, really, do we.
 
I've always preferred to think of HS2 as additional capacity that happens to be built to 21st century standards rather than (mid) 20th century ones. The speed is, as you say, a bit of an irrelevance over the distances involved. The sad thing is when, in the fixation on speed, the radius of curves means there's less opportunity to route the line to minimise disruption to communities on the route.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I've always preferred to think of HS2 as additional capacity that happens to be built to 21st century standards rather than (mid) 20th century ones. The speed is, as you say, a bit of an irrelevance over the distances involved. The sad thing is when, in the fixation on speed, the radius of curves means there's less opportunity to route the line to minimise disruption to communities on the route.
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There is virtually no capacity left on West and East coast lines (at least when passenger numbers return to normal over time), which is the crux of the problem. Standing all the way from London to York next to the toilets with 6 or 7 others crammed in too is no joke, while Birmingham New Street is a notorious bottleneck. The trouble is now the rest of HS2 makes little (if any) sense.
 
Woodface said:
The main problem with a high speed link to the north is that encourages southerners to settle here. No good can come of it.
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On the flip side, HS2 did mean that if I ever had the misfortune to find myself in, say, Crewe or Lancaster, it would enable me to have got the hell out much faster. :)
 
gavreid said:
They'll spend tuppence ha'penny on the Manchester-Leeds line, which still won't support fast trains, and call it levelling up! It looks like Leeds will be given the sop of a tram system, but you can't travel anywhere else by tram! The cash is being diverted to Tory consituencies instead for their infrastracture projects.

Frankly HS2 should have been built/started in the 80s, when the French began to build TGV, but Thatcher was more keen on shutting the railways and it should have run the full length of the country. Instead we only got electrification of the East Coast Line and more motorways. The south coast - midlands - leeds journey is still diesel! We're now seeing the cost of trying to catch up a bit on the failure to invest over 40 years.
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The British network is an embarrassment next to France, Spain, Italy, Germany. The reason it never happened in the 80s was down to Thatcher’s “everyone wants their own motor” and a loathing for spending on public services. At a time when she should have invested heavily in rail and other infrastructure, she squandered oil revenue on unemployment and sickness benefit, wrecking people’s lives.
 
TheDecameron said:
The British network is an embarrassment next to France, Spain, Italy, Germany. The reason it never happened in the 80s was down to Thatcher’s “everyone wants their own motor” and a loathing for spending on public services. At a time when she should have invested heavily in rail and other infrastructure, she squandered oil revenue on unemployment and sickness benefit, wrecking people’s lives.
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In fairness, French, Italian and German railways were always ahead of ours since 1945. The RAF and USAF had forced a grand reset and cleared vast swathes if built-up area ready for straighter and faster tracks.
 
Seeker_UK said:
In fairness, French, Italian and German railways were always ahead of ours since 1945. The RAF and USAF had forced a grand reset and cleared vast swathes if built-up area ready for straighter and faster tracks.
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Well Spain has an impressive rail network and I don’t think that’s down to the Condor Legion.
 
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