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Tory corruption & sleaze (lobbying, second jobs, dodgy contracts etc)

ks.234 said:
We need a Revolution. Not one that storms palaces and breaks things, but one that gently flips understanding through 180°, turns it on it’s head and enables us to see our world how it really is, not how we’ve been told by our betters for such a long, long time.
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The problem is that the bulk of of UK-level 'Press' simply go on maintaining the old lies - because it suits them, their rich mates, and the Tories who they are connected to. Hence Brown 'caused the crash' when in fact all he did was fall for the lies the press and City peddled. BJ gets more from his writing for the 'Press' than he does from his PM's salary because he peddles the stories they want. So is in this respect no different to Paterson.

PE documents these things issue, after issue, after issue. Has done for decades. But most people don't read it.

Whilst this goes on, getting changes for the better is frozen off the mainstream agenda for fear of being 'monstered'.
 
ks.234 said:
Boris is not the only problem. A Chancellor who preaches that government’s ability to spending is dependant on raising tax, then hides is wealth away from the tax man is as morally bankrupt and actually corrupt as Johnson
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He hides it better though.
 
Barrymagrec said:
He hides it better though.
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Only under the thinnest of veils, it’s easy enough to see through. To complain about the corruption exposed by Patterson and believe that the Chancellor is somehow removed from it is a kind blindness that perpetuates the corruption.
 
ks.234 said:
Boris is not the only problem. A Chancellor who preaches that government’s ability to spending is dependant on raising tax, then hides is wealth away from the tax man is as morally bankrupt and actually corrupt as Johnson
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Problem is, this plays well with natural Labour-leaning folk, but doesn't seem to penetrate the consciousness of moderate Tory voters. Ponty tells us he'd be content with Sunak, and I can only assume he hasn't really considered this point about his moral ambiguity or he might think differently about him. So these sort of messages need to land and lodge in the consciousnesses of moderate Tories, not just playing to the Labour gallery.
 
^ I was once talking to people from a Central Asian Republic about an upcoming election and (naively) mentioned that maybe someone new might win. They replied that was the last thing they wanted: better to keep the old regime that were already billionaires than have a 'hungry' new lot !
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Problem is, this plays well with natural Labour-leaning folk, but doesn't seem to penetrate the consciousness of moderate Tory voters. Ponty tells us he'd be content with Sunak, and I can only assume he hasn't really considered this point about his moral ambiguity or he might think differently about him. So these sort of messages need to land and lodge in the consciousnesses of moderate Tories, not just playing to the Labour gallery.
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Yes, the Labour gallery is stuffed with as many of the corrupt and morally bankrupt as the Tories
 
ks.234 said:
Boris is not the only problem. A Chancellor who preaches that government’s ability to spending is dependant on raising tax, then hides is wealth away from the tax man is as morally bankrupt and actually corrupt as Johnson
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If he’s doing nothing illegal (which I’m sure he won’t be), his business is really none of mine. Same applies to anyone else. I don’t think Sunak particularly likes the Johnson tax, borrow and spend mantra. He’d be a far less wreckless and more responsible PM IMHO.
 
The Tories have a solid core of 40% or so of the electorate who will forgive almost anything as long as they hear the virulent anti-migrant racism and anti-EU bellowings from the government. Sleaze will eat into that vote, but not by enough to make any difference come the next election. It's completely obvious to me that they only way to get rid of this lot electorally is for anti-Tory parties to work together. But that will never happen because Labour is so tribal it would rather be in opposition forever. If you're in the game of electoral politics, it makes no sense not to try to win it.
 
Ponty said:
If he’s doing nothing illegal (which I’m sure he won’t be), his business is really none of mine. Same applies to anyone else. I don’t think Sunak particularly likes the Johnson tax, borrow and spend mantra. He’d be a far less wreckless and more responsible PM IMHO.
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Patterson did nothing illegal, what he did was still morally wrong.

Sunak does preach the tax, borrow and spend mantra, it’s not one that is attached to Johnson in any particular way, it is preached by Sunak himself. As Chancellor he it’s is chief propagator. If you believe that government spending on valuable public services like Health Care is dependant on tax, as Sunak says he believes, then depriving government of tax by hiding it offshore is depriving Health Care of much needed resources. It is morally repugnant, hypocritical, cruel and as corrupt as anything Patterson has done. More so because by depriving the governments ability to spend on public services, he is having a far more direct impact on impoverishing thousands of lives.
 
On Labour, I'm stunned to see that Keith Vaz was elected chair of his constituency party as recently as January 2020. The same protection and enablement as the Tories.
 
Sunak is a fairly standard issue economically illiterate Thatcherite wannabe. The fact that he's considered leadership material is just a sign of how lacking in anything apart from electoral cunning the current Tory party is.
 
Ponty said:
If he’s doing nothing illegal (which I’m sure he won’t be), his business is really none of mine. Same applies to anyone else. I don’t think Sunak particularly likes the Johnson tax, borrow and spend mantra. He’d be a far less wreckless and more responsible PM IMHO.
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He's certainly less of a wreck.
 
ks.234 said:
Patterson did nothing illegal, what he did was still morally wrong.
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Covert paid corporate shilling is illegal under our parliamentary system hence the outcry of recent days. To my mind he should be in jail for a very long time, as should all those who bypassed open tender and gave dodgy PPE contracts etc to friends and party funders. It is all illegal, though the Tory Party always sees itself far above the law of this land. They are a criminal entity at least as bad as the local drug gang IMHO, just far larger in scale and routing the tax payer for £bns.
 
Tony L said:
Covert paid corporate shilling is illegal under our parliamentary system hence the outcry of recent days. To my mind he should be in jail for a very long time, as should all those who bypassed open tender and gave dodgy PPE contracts etc to friends and party funders. It is all illegal, though the Tory Party always sees itself far above the law of this land. They are a criminal entity at least as bad as the local drug gang IMHO, just far larger in scale and routing the tax payer for £bns.
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Not disagreeing with you really, what Patterson did was not against criminal law, but against Parliamentary rules. The comparison was with Sunak who is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as Patterson, I’d argue more so, the only difference between Patterson and Sunak is that Patterson got caught. They are all, as you say, a criminal entity, how anyone can complain about corruption in politics and still vote for those criminals is beyond comprehension
 
ks.234 said:
Patterson did nothing illegal, what he did was still morally wrong.

Sunak does preach the tax, borrow and spend mantra, it’s not one that is attached to Johnson in any particular way, it is preached by Sunak himself. As Chancellor he it’s is chief propagator. If you believe that government spending on valuable public services like Health Care is dependant on tax, as Sunak says he believes, then depriving government of tax by hiding it offshore is depriving Health Care of much needed resources. It is morally repugnant, hypocritical, cruel and as corrupt as anything Patterson has done. More so because by depriving the governments ability to spend on public services, he is having a far more direct impact on impoverishing thousands of lives.
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What tax do you think Sunak should be paying which he is not currently?
 
Its all well and good expressing political views on pfm but the truth is that we have so many people and I just hate saying this, thick beyond belief. Politics run for a section of society when it should be politics for the people.

I am an Atheist but recommend that you draw the attention to the point in the bible when the boy watching the flock called out about the wolves attacking the flock which was possibly true BUT because he had lied by Ffuck on previous occasions nobody would ever believe him, would they Boris.... a lack of morals by supposedly educated people but totally lacking common sense and decency sums up politicians.

Does anyone actually trust them?
 
palacefan said:
Its all well and good expressing political views on pfm but the truth is that we have so many people and I just hate saying this, thick beyond belief. Politics run for a section of society when it should be politics for the people.

I am an Atheist but recommend that you draw the attention to the point in the bible when the boy watching the flock called out about the wolves attacking the flock which was possibly true BUT because he had lied by Ffuck on previous occasions nobody would ever believe him, would they Boris.... a lack of morals by supposedly educated people but totally lacking common sense and decency sums up politicians.

Does anyone actually trust them?
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Do you mean The Boy Who Cried Wolf, written by Aesop in his fables…?
 
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