Apple unethical...

[Le Baron]

Again, if its Open Source then why not do something like Apple and make a neat OS and provide on hand immediate technical support and employ lots of people to do it? Rather than moaning about it.

A decade ago you coukd walk into an Apple
Shop and they would swap the devices immediately, now its a long winded process often, hence my opinion on CS, however sure beats any PC manufacturers I jad the displeasure of dealing with prior.

Warranty Repairs are somewhat different from standard Customer Service.

So if you’re say a 70 year old with no technical knowledge in these matters, who do you call when your ageing Pc and Zoran go wrong? Just out of curiosity? Are there some helpers on Planet Zoran contactable by phone?

You're confused. You seem to think the rejoinder is to advise people to do what Apple does - steal from the open source world and charge for it - in response to criticism of their model. That's not coherent.
You just applauded someone else saying how great the repair process is after saying their customer service etc is bad and had declined. Make your mind up chief.

No-one of any age without tech knowledge is in much of a position to do anything than call support. Lots of Linux has paid support (obviously since Linux systems run most of the professional technology in the world), it's a fraction of the cost. The thing is though not that much goes wrong for the average PC user using it.

 

[flutteringwow]

This is the sort of support that I provide to my local community. Unfortunately some old computers won't be fixable if the mobo goes unless we can find another old machine that I can cannibalise. Oh I'll be 77 this year! I have several pensioners happily using Linux!

All the Apple repairs I have had over the years have been a swap out for new device from backup stock out of plain cardboard cartons.

Must be the force,

DV

You run a free worldwide technical helpline?

i think thats what the general argument is about. Sure you have a community based approach, but in reality thats not feasible for everyone at all. But being able to click a few buttons and get help generally is pretty useful, as my dad found when I was in hospital with the Rona.

Apples os overall is just far simpler off the bat.

 

[Darth Vader]

You run a free worldwide technical helpline?

i think thats what the general argument is about. Sure you have a community based approach, but in reality thats not feasible for everyone at all. But being able to click a few buttons and get help generally is pretty useful, as my dad found when I was in hospital with the Rona.

Apples os overall is just far simpler off the bat.

Sort of. I have been helping members on pfm for years now and they are all over the place.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Its a highly modded Unix-like O/S.

Great fun,

DV

 

[flutteringwow]

You're confused. You seem to think the rejoinder is to advise people to do what Apple does - steal from the open source world and charge for it - in response to criticism of their model. That's not coherent.
You just applauded someone else saying how great the repair process is after saying their customer service etc is bad and had declined. Make your mind up chief.

No-one of any age without tech knowledge is in much of a position to do anything than call support. Lots of Linux has paid support (obviously since Linux systems run most of the professional technology in the world), it's a fraction of the cost. The thing is though not that much goes wrong for the average PC user using it.

You do need to read the PFM AUP. I suggest you do it, its under the Reference section.

Im not confused. Apple do need to improve their CS as it once was superior to how it is now but its still better than any other manufacturer.

As for your Os, hey if you wont want to do something, dont do it. If you feel Apple
Are criminals take them to court.

i noticed you didn't answer my questions directly though, just ranted so lets try again.

When a PC breaks down running Linux, where does the user to for help?

 

[Le Baron]

Apples os overall is just far simpler off the bat.

I don't know why you keep saying that when it's just another UNIX clone. There will have been some adjustments made for non-technical people, just like Microsoft does in their system. Big deal.

All Linux has moved in that direction, user-friendliness, but you can still get under the bonnet when you need to. And the knowledge for how to is given freely.

 

[flutteringwow]

Sort of. I have been helping members on pfm for years now and they are all over the place.

Great fun,

DV

Lol, I like your creativity in comparing yourself to Apple Support, but I do t think you'd be happy with taking calls from a few hundred thousand people a day in all languages.

 

[flutteringwow]

I don't know why you keep saying that when it's just another UNIX clone. There will have been some adjustments made for non-technical people, just like Microsoft does in their system. Big deal.

All Linux has moved in that direction, user-friendliness, but you can still get under the bonnet when you need to. And the knowledge for how to is given freely.

Woop.

 

[Le Baron]

You do need to read the PFM AUP. I suggest you do it, its under the Reference section.

Im not confused. Apple do need to improve their CS as it once was superior to how it is now but its still better than any other manufacturer.

As for your Os, hey if you wont want to do something, dont do it. If you feel Apple
Are criminals take them to court.

i noticed you didn't answer my questions directly though, just ranted so lets try again.

When a PC breaks down running Linux, where does the user to for help?

Nice try. Don't try to passive-aggressively threaten me with user terms nonsense, when I've done nothing other than address the question. Throwing out the 'put up or shut up' argument in a cavalier fashion, when it's clear individual users aren't a match for a trillion dollar corporation is just silly.

I answered your questions thoroughly. I don't need to try again, you do.

 

[flutteringwow]

Nice try. Don't try to passive-aggressively threaten me with user terms nonsense, when I've done nothing other than address the question. Throwing out the 'put up or shut up' argument in a cavalier fashion, when it's clear individual users aren't a match for a trillion dollar corporation is just silly.

I answered your questions thoroughly. I don't need to try again, you do.

Lol. You don't need to shut up, and I imagine you won’t, hours of amusement.

if you think you are being ‘threatened’ I suggest you report the post to the Mods as that is quite an accusation.

You’re doing well for your 13th day on the forum. We shall meet again I imagine.

 

[Le Baron]

Lol.

Lol.

 

[Darth Vader]

Lol, I like your creativity in comparing yourself to Apple Support, but I do t think you'd be happy with taking calls from a few hundred thousand people a day in all languages.

I am actually much better qualified and knowledgeable than any support that I have experienced. I actually built helpline and support desks into my complex IT designs so understand the level of competence.

DV

 

[flutteringwow]

I am actually much better qualified and knowledgeable than any support that I have experienced. I actually built helpline and support desks into my complex IT designs so understand the level of competence.

DV

Thats cool, i dont think knowledge was questioned but your capacity to cater for tens of thousands a day must be of a magnitude I cannot even comprehend. Thats my issue though.

 

[Le Baron]

I am actually much better qualified and knowledgeable than any support that I have experienced. I actually built helpline and support desks into my complex IT designs so understand the level of competence.

DV

Indeed. What Apple/MS fanboys don't understand is the concept of users helping one another. And that many of the helpers are often the developers themselves. It's not about keeping people at the mercy of expertise (or manufactured expertise) as a source of dubious income.

 

[Le Baron]

Lol. You don't need to shut up, and I imagine you won’t, hours of amusement.

if you think you are being ‘threatened’ I suggest you report the post to the Mods as that is quite an accusation.

You are the one who invoked it, not me. Gaslighting doesn't work with me either. Stick to the matter at hand.

 

[Darth Vader]

Indeed. What Apple/MS fanboys don't understand is the concept of users helping one another. And that many of the helpers are often the developers themselves. It's not about keeping people at the mercy of expertise (or manufactured expertise) as a source of dubious income.

I am truly amazed at the support available within the Linux community. I have access to software that would have cost hundreds of thousands and all for free.

DV

 

[flutteringwow]

You are the one who invoked it, not me. Gaslighting doesn't work with me either. Stick to the matter at hand.

You do seem to have a nature were you believe it's acceptable to tell others what to do.

As I said, report posts you feel are being threatening to you, as that's simply not acceptable behaviour. You uses that phrasing, therefore made it a matter.

I do recommend reading the AUP though, you may want to edit some of your earlier posts after that.

I got bored now I am afraid.

Thats just a silly comment.

I am truly amazed at the support available within the Linux community. I have access to software that would have cost hundreds of thousands and all for free.

DV

Whats the support like? Free 24 hour technical support, anywhere in the world, on machines that can be quite elderly, where the operators will literally tell you the trouble shooting steps to take?

I would probably say you are being silly by comparing yourself to Apple Support tbh, but it works for you.

So, Linux is great - that's cool. Rock on. Once it gets a bigger public footprint, then it may be able to compete. Until then, it's of little relevance other than to people who actually have real interest (be it hobby or employment) in that world, such as yourself and angry man.

What a big discussion one could have over manufacturers that 'stole' elements from products and made better/more successful products from it..

 

[Darth Vader]

I have searched the web but haven't found anyone who can build a bootable USB clone of Big Sur. There are solutions for external SSD clones but they won't boot if the internal disk has been wiped as the sealed volume has been lost.

I have a Big Sur USB SSD clone on my desk that was created on one machine and boots a 2014 Macbook Air from a USB port. Yeh!

This from a CCC article "nobody can make a proper copy of the System volume right now" - Oh yeeesssss I did! Linky https://bombich.com/blog/2020/11/03/yes-you-can-have-bootable-backups-on-macos-big-sur

Great fun!

DV

 

[Le Baron]

You do seem to have a nature were you believe it's acceptable to tell others what to do.

As I said, report posts you feel are being threatening to you, as that's simply not acceptable behaviour.

I do recommend reading the AUP though, you may want to edit some of your earlier posts after that.

I got bored now I am afraid.

I'd recommend you take your own advice. Because I'm helpful.

 

[SteveG]

The following is slightly tongue in cheek (although only slightly):

I'm an experienced unix/linux system administrator with decades of experience, but there is no way I'd recommend Linux as a general purpose PC operating system although I can understand some cheapskate enthusiasts being willing to use it when it is appropriate for their own (no doubt very limited) use case (even if that is only to crow about how they are independent thinkers and therefore better than the rest of us in some undefined way)...

I've used the Apple OS and really just don't like it at all, although again I can see how some might still prefer it to Windows 3.1 - which was perhaps the last version of Windows that wasn't comprehensively superior to the Mac OS of the same period (and still seems to be what Mac fanboys seem to compare against).

Also on my desk at the moment I have a pretty modern iPhone (an 11) as well as a good modern Android phone - and can't for the life of me see how anyone can think the very clunky iPhone operating system is superior to Android (especially as the iPhone costs about double what the Android phone did, despite the latter having much, much, much better hardware). Some do though.

I've never really been a fan of Apple computers although at one time I did think their phones were better than everything else available (well, as handheld computers - the phone side has never been that great) but I think they've been comprehensively over-taken now in pretty much every area of their business - other than in engendering fanboy loyalty of course.

 

[flutteringwow]

The following is slightly tongue in cheek (although only slightly):

I'm an experienced unix/linux system administrator with decades of experience, but there is no way I'd recommend Linux as a general purpose PC operating system although I can understand some cheapskate enthusiasts being willing to use it when it is appropriate for their own (no doubt very limited) use case (even if that is only to crow about how they are independent thinkers and therefore better than the rest of us in some undefined way)...

I've used the Apple OS and really just don't like it at all, although again I can see how some might still prefer it to Windows 3.1 - which was perhaps the last version of Windows that wasn't comprehensively superior to the Mac OS of the same period (and still seems to be what Mac fanboys seem to compare against).

Also on my desk at the moment I have a pretty modern iPhone (an 11) as well as a good modern Android phone - and can't for the life of me see how anyone can think the very clunky iPhone operating system is superior to Android (especially as the iPhone costs about double what the Android phone did, despite the latter having much, much, much better hardware). Some do though.

I've never really been a fan of Apple computers although at one time I did think their phones were better than everything else available (well, as handheld computers - the phone side has never been that great) but I think they've been comprehensively over-taken now in pretty much every area of their business - other than in engendering fanboy loyalty of course.

Curiously, why does Linux not make more of a mark in the general market?