James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
That does not surprise me at all. We have very contrary views. My Lyra Kleos was replaced by a Hana ML. No regrets.
New Mc cartridge
- Thread starter NEWGUY
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
How on Earth did you deduce that? Look at the last para in my post 27. Hana would be my go to if I downsized, just on received wisdom. Baffling ! Slawekt's post below supports my guarded comments on your comparison between the K and the Hana on arm requirements alone. Not sure why you think this might be irrelevant.
Indeed, and thanks. Despite these things not being black and white (as I've had 2 x Ks on a Five +other arms), I despair that fundamental synergies of arm and cart. are simply ignored, esp. when expensive coils are concerned. The Hana may well outperform the Red T Sig is ideal comparative tests, but somehow I doubt it, quite apart from other presentational and personal taste aspects clouding the issue.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Assuming the Delos is a typical Lyra (and it is, of course), the Five will do nicely. my 2 Lyras were on a Five, my friend's Helikon and Titan i were on a Five for years into Naim. The up-frontedness of Lyra and ultra neutrality of SME may not seen likely bedfellows, but they are. Having said that, Lyras are, i.m.o., one of the most versatile and accommodative cart's out there However, I do think 11g mass is a starting point for ANY coil.
Thanks , but I personally think buying a used cartridge is like buying used tyres for your car,you never fully know the condition and it’s a big risk. I’m looking for something that will last me a good while and prefer to have the peace of mind by purchasing a new one, but it was very kind of you to post the link so thank you for the heads up.
Bairnstorm
pfm Member
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Bairnstorm, to be fair, the dealer brought the Jubilee, installed it my friend's Five and left. Judging by cart.-fitting events some years later by the dealer, it may not have been installed properly. Maybe it needed a lot of running in (Lyras don't, particularly) Also, the output of the J is rather low. Anyway, my friend almost immediately swapped it for a Helikon and all was and still is well. Lots of people bought the Jubilee so maybe this was a one-off. I did hear it, and it was lifeless (into a Prefix, I believe).
A few years later, the dealer, who travelled some 35 miles with a selection of cart's, left my friend with an almost new Koetsu (Red K Sig?) to sample but he didn't like it. He took photos of the stylus on the protractor and the overhang was WAY out; no wonder! We couldn't understand why the dealer had travelled that distance to sell a cart. and not set it up to perform.
PS Have just realised that a cock-up in quoting/posting (as I also get caught out on) cannot then be quoted. Live and learn!
A few years later, the dealer, who travelled some 35 miles with a selection of cart's, left my friend with an almost new Koetsu (Red K Sig?) to sample but he didn't like it. He took photos of the stylus on the protractor and the overhang was WAY out; no wonder! We couldn't understand why the dealer had travelled that distance to sell a cart. and not set it up to perform.
PS Have just realised that a cock-up in quoting/posting (as I also get caught out on) cannot then be quoted. Live and learn!
So do I but at that price you can quite cheaply try this cartridge , if you like it Lyra do exchange discount £279 and you could buy new cartridge after a while , if you don't you can re-sell it without loosing much.
There are quite few moving coil cartridges with highish compliance ie mentioned above Delos , Audio Technica , etc... and 9-11 gram tonearms are perfect match for these ones
Orbe Chaser
pfm Member
The K couldn't have been optimally set up if the Hana sounded better. I am an admirer of Hana carts & have heard a few in differing systems, including the ML, which I was considering myself, but in the end I went with a K Black Goldline & it sounded so good two of my hifi friends immediately bought a Black, one selling his ML instead of it & one crossing it off his list of possibles. Horses for courses & all that but set up correctly Koetsu's entry level leaves the Hana way behind.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
You'll have to speak to Oxford Audio Consultants about that claim.
The Hana far exceeds Koetsu Red Sign, but I appreciate that there is snobbery attached to the more expensive flavours, thus this will equal, bias. Cant have a £1k cart beat a £3k one, never in a million years!
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Well, yes, you say 'highish', but I thought any decent m/coil had a compliance higher than most m/magnets. Even my K black sounded good in my Five, but this obv. wasn't an ideal match.
I could have been, but in the wrong arm.
Having a dealer set up a cart. SHOULD be infallible, but certainly wasn't in the case I mentioned in post 46. Have always set up my own with a decent protractor; no reliance on others there.
Quite! You're echoing others on this thread. 'Comparisons are odious' is the old adage, esp. if you don't optimise the item.
Nothing to do with snobbery; you had the wrong arm for the K so the Hana would be much more amenable to the 9.5g mass (though I still think you could do better)
It's the other way round but there are exceptions , top flight moving coil carts normally have very low compliance while moving magnets rather high
It isn't snobbery but cartridge setup basics , of course 1k cartridge can beat 3k one but in the case you mentioned it wasn't fair comparison as SME309 is not even close to be a good match for Koetsu Red Sig
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
lol
Bairnstorm
pfm Member
So much in this thread!
Mike the Shibata in the Jubilee is very fussy and if it is not set up right the imaging, bass and general flow disappear. That might be the problem.
I haven't had a Koetsu Signature but I had a Black which I thought was wonderful. It was replaced by the Benz when the tip fell off but may get it retipped as it is a lovely organic sound.
My set up has improved dramatically since I downloaded the Hoffmann protractor and used that.
Mike the Shibata in the Jubilee is very fussy and if it is not set up right the imaging, bass and general flow disappear. That might be the problem.
I haven't had a Koetsu Signature but I had a Black which I thought was wonderful. It was replaced by the Benz when the tip fell off but may get it retipped as it is a lovely organic sound.
My set up has improved dramatically since I downloaded the Hoffmann protractor and used that.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Sorry, I'm an idiot. 'higher' should have read 'lower'. To my recollection, some VdHs used to have a higher than usual compliance.
I also thought my entry into K, the Black Goldline, was great fun. Gutsy (high output, I s'pose), colourful and musical; as I said, FUN. I had it for a few years in my Five, but when I got a new deck with 12" arm(s), it was even better. Sold it when a Vermillion came along; a different beast, that. Not as much fun, maybe, but so much more revealing and sophisticated, but still very Koetsu (still got it). MUCH lower output (0.2 mV v 0.6 mV European)
I also had a Benz (concurrently with the Vermillion) and that was an eye-opener too. Very open, detailed and musical. Nowhere near as dark as the Ks but slightly warm with it nonetheless (Benz Ebony LP). If I hadn't acquired a Proteus, I'd still have it. The Transfig just expanded on every level and esp. on transparency. The 1 ohm internal imp. might have sth to do with that (like iOs)
I can see how 1. could be an issue, though not a problem on either arm I've used, Funk FX3 & Brinkmann.
Point 2? I know two happy 500 owners, not heard the 2, 3 or 500 myself but patently untrue as regards the PP2000. This Misnomer appears to have spread from Fremer's review when comparing to Atlas and Anna D, others I know who've heard (and like) all three have suggested the latter two may over-egg through the bass by comparison. Each to their own