advertisement


Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

Status
Not open for further replies.
Robert said:
Needs to happen.

I want a Tory landslide around the country today for two reasons.
Firstly I want Labour destroyed. The only way an effective left opposite can now be formed is to consign the Labour Party to history and fill the void.
Secondly, the above is far more likely to occur when former Labour voters now voting Tory get a real taste of just what that means in practice.

It may take some years to play out.
Click to expand...
What a ridiculous sentiment. I am sure you will be ok with this scenario, still able to buy Hifi & have a nice life but what about those that are less fortunate?

Let them eat cake?
 
gavreid said:
But, the message from voters is clear and we have heard it. Labour has not yet changed nearly enough for voters to place their trust in us."
Click to expand...

If you think the message from them is Labour needs to be more left wing, rather than well done Boris on getting Brexit dun (cos we are not affected by that) and vaccinating everyone (depite being the main reason we have had such a problem) - you are projecting into fantasy.
 
SteveS1 said:
If you think the message from them is Labour needs to be more left wing, rather than well done Boris on getting Brexit dun (cos we are not affected by that) and vaccinating everyone (depite being the main reason we have had such a problem) - you are projecting into fantasy.
Click to expand...

I know your opinion Steve. You've just been decimated at it's still entrenched...

Remember the CWU poll? 57% of voters in the constituency support renationalising the Royal Mail and 69% of them support the idea of providing free internet access for all...
 
Labour has a lot of hard thinking to do in order to make themselves even remotely electable again, however rather than taking this as a wake up call I suspect it's more likely it'll deepen their self-destructive agenda.
 
SteveS1 said:
If you think the message from them is Labour needs to be more left wing, rather than well done Boris on getting Brexit dun (cos we are not affected by that) and vaccinating everyone (depite being the main reason we have had such a problem) - you are projecting into fantasy.
Click to expand...
Read his post again. He’s saying something quite specific and explicit, you don’t need to ask if he’s saying something else.
 
Nearly 7,000 votes loss for Labour in Hartlepool. Let that sink in.

Just shows that the problems are a lot deeper than Corbyn’s left-wing policies which were blamed in the last election.

I’m not saying more Corbynism is the answer by the way as it isn’t.
 
What is worrying is how all opposition to Boris has evaporated. I expected a heavy Labour loss, but the Greens and the Lib Dem’s barely managed 500 votes between them. Boris seems to be untouchable at the moment, he is the umbrella that the Tories are sheltering under. What I don’t understand is why people look at him and think ‘great guy’ instead of ‘lying two faced twat’.
 
gavreid said:
I know your opinion Steve. You've just been decimated at it's still entrenched...
Click to expand...

Yes they have, but if any opposition is going to be honest - those messages are not going to be well received for a while yet. But of course if your solution is to start changing your offering to suit the electorate's current mood - the Tories have beaten you to it. If they are going to have people telling them how wonderful recent choices will work for them - they already have that - why would they want a pale imitation?
 
Same story though innit, what's the alternative, Starmer? I am not confident he actually exists.
 
gavreid said:
This an mistake Robert. However tenuous, Labour still retain some link to working people through the TU bureaucracy. A defeat for Labour on this scale would be catastrophic. Corbyn and McDonnell should have formed a new party last year, and something needs to happen sooner rather than later, but Labour must be beaten from the left. Macron, for example, has been a disaster (centrism has nothing to offer in more difficult times) and France may well see an extreme right wing President after many years of running a close race.

Labour doesn't appear to have learned its lessons this morning either - more of the same. In fact, the voters were blaming Labour for loss of steel jobs, closure of the local hospital etc because their councillors had overseen the processes:

"We’ve said all along the north-east and the Midlands would be difficult. We also said the places declaring Thursday would be particularly difficult.

But, the message from voters is clear and we have heard it. Labour has not yet changed nearly enough for voters to place their trust in us."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...083ed34c4e34e6#block-6094cbcd8f083ed34c4e34e6
Click to expand...
Yes. Starmer has tied himself to one of the major problems, local Labour councils: he’s promised not to touch them and that will hold. The only solution the leadership have available to them is to further crack down on the left and on local democracy. This looks like being a disaster, but one from which no lessons will be learned.
 
lordsummit said:
What is worrying is how all opposition to Boris has evaporated. I expected a heavy Labour loss, but the Greens and the Lib Dem’s barely managed 500 votes between them. Boris seems to be untouchable at the moment, he is the umbrella that the Tories are sheltering under. What I don’t understand is why people look at him and think ‘great guy’ instead of ‘lying two faced twat’.
Click to expand...

They like the lies. It doesn't matter if they are based in fact.
 
This isn't an ordinary defeat, I think only two by-elections have been lost to the sitting government in the past 40 years and the loss of local councillors will be on a scale not seen since Blair. The Tories picked up the Brexit Party's vote (a sure sign that Labour hasn't connected with Leave voters under Starmer) but Labour's was also down by 9%. I'm guessing that a lot of these people abstained or voted independent rather than voted Tory. Starmer has been hung drawn and quartered and he shows no signs of recognising his mistakes.
 
gavreid said:
This isn't an ordinary defeat, I think only two by-elections have been lost to the sitting government in the past 40 years. Starmer has been hung drawn and quartered and he shows no signs of recognising his mistakes.
Click to expand...

What are his mistakes Gav? How would you now tackle voters who are determined to believe they have just voted for change - when in fact they have just voted for the same thing they have had for 11 years?

Applying the same logic as Robert upthread, if Labour needed to learn by being battered, what makes us think the voters won't also need to learn about what they have just voted for, before they are prepared to listen to options?
 
gavreid said:
This isn't an ordinary defeat, I think only two by-elections have been lost to the sitting government in the past 40 years and the loss of local councillors will be on a scale not seen since Blair. Starmer has been hung drawn and quartered and he shows no signs of recognising his mistakes.
Click to expand...
Just the start, too. Council results look like they're going to be as bad.
 
SteveS1 said:
What are his mistakes Gav? How would you now tackle voters who are determined to believe they have just voted for change - when in fact they have just voted for the same thing they have had for 11 years?

Applying the same logic as Robert upthread, if Labour needed to learn by being battered, what makes us think the voters won't also need to learn about what they have just voted for, before they are prepared to listen to options?
Click to expand...

The only glimmer of hope is that a clear majority abstained, no doubt out of contempt, so there is something to work with if you can offer them something to vote for.
 
gavreid said:
The only glimmer of hope is that a clear majority abstained, no doubt out of contempt, so there is something to work with if you can offer them something to vote for.
Click to expand...

Yes but what do you offer people determined to believe they have voted for change, when they have done their opposite? It will be like trying to tell GOP voters their election wasn't stolen.
 
The only hope Starmer offered was that he wasn't Corbyn. That alone isn't enough, Starmer might be a good orator, but he has offered no policies, no direction, and no strategy.
 
SteveS1 said:
What are his mistakes Gav? How would you now tackle voters who are determined to believe they have just voted for change - when in fact they have just voted for the same thing they have had for 11 years?
Click to expand...
Clear out the councils, throw everything at the Community Organising Unit, look forward with clear policies, including economic populism, where the electorate is left wing.

What Starmer actually did:
Back local councillors to the hilt, disband Community Organising Unit, look back with disgust at his own party and offer nothing for the future. Push cultural BS, where large parts of the electorate are right wing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top