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Winter driving.

Cesare said:
Yes, snow tyres are what you need for snow, chains are rarely if ever needed. This is based on a fair number of years experience in the french alps driving front wheeled cars and vans on all sorts of deep snow and ice.
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Yes, here in Sweden everybody has winter tyres and I don't think I ever seen chains in use.

About RWD/FWD/4WD. Until not many years ago, most Swedish farmers used RWD Volvos, they live out in the wilderness and didn't seem to have any problems.
The best winter cars I've used has all been RWD, dads old Lada, an even older VW and my own first gen Merc C-klass. With them anyone could be a pretend rally driver round the corners. Even my mum drifted around the corners in the Lada, 'It's easier, you don't have to turn the steering wheel as much'.
The bad ones has all been FWD's. An Honda ATR was worst, with an LSD in the winter booth wheels just spun when you applied the throttle. Older SAAB's with the handbrake on the front wheels (how did they think?).
The other winter the neighbour with an 4WD tried to get up a not very steep slope. Result? Spinning with all 4 wheels and getting nowhere. Never had a 4WD myself, so I'm not the expert.
 
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When I started driving, in the mid-1960s, all cars had skinny wheels (nice steel ones, a damn sight easier to clean than these silly alloy ones) & so we didn't seem to have so many problems gadding about in the snow, but you still got stuck. Winter/snow tyres on modern cars do the business, but winter/snow tyres on a good 4X4 with the latest electronic terrain control systems do it even better.
 
Yank said:
In the US they all came with the 1600cc engine. :)
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Wow, that made it a quick car. The 1.3 (S?) was pretty sporty and the boys all aspired to having one, but the jewel was the XR2, with the 1.6. I think that they were available in Mk 1 form. Nobody under 25 could afford to insure them. I would imagine that even with USA emissions gear they were no slouch.
 
Suffolk Tony said:
When I started driving, in the mid-1960s, all cars had skinny wheels (nice steel ones, a damn sight easier to clean than these silly alloy ones) & so we didn't seem to have so many problems gadding about in the snow, but you still got stuck. Winter/snow tyres on modern cars do the business, but winter/snow tyres on a good 4X4 with the latest electronic terrain control systems do it even better.
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You don't get better brakes with 4WD.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
I always fancy an original Fiat Panda 4wd with some winter tyres on. No weight, loadsa grip and traction, wouldn’t care if it picked up a little damage.
I bet there are few left now. I’ll have a look.

edit: including the Sisley models, about 250, taxed or Sorned.
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My Grandmother had one. D reg. It was very capable and a complete hoot! I have fond memories of razzing it round the fields when there was snow (at the house I now live in). I was about 13, what a laugh!

Prior to that she had a Morris Traveller (bought new in 1968). It had skinny M+S tyres on it. She never had a problem except in proper drifts which needed a tractor to get through anyway.
 
From a vehicle dynamics perspective, you need better control of the tyre longitudinal slip (and lateral slip if you are braking and cornering) in low grip conditions.

This is where having thinner tyres, better grip patterns, softer compounds that work at lower temperatures, on board control systems that understand the conditions, more sympathetic driving style, better load distribution, something to compensate for the natural brake balance as that is good for dry conditions but poor for low grip (gear selection, 4 wheel drive) come in.

Most of the above has been mentioned in this thread already.

Does anyone manufacture a car where there is dashboard switch for low grip conditions (very wet and then more extreme snow and ice)? I thought that Land Rover did this but are there others? It would certainly possible to develop a control system that with all the gizmos on modern cars, made it safer and easier to drive in difficult conditions. But maybe automotive manufactures are concerned that people would drive more stupidly and that there would be more accidents?

When I was living in Switzerland, the first snowfall would result in a day of accidents, but then everyone would have winter tyres fitted by the end of November (insurance requirement) and then it all worked very smoothly.
 
A few weeks ago I fitted Yokohama GO15 all terrain tyres to my Subaru XV. With 220mm ground clearance (same as my old land cruiser but much lighter) and a proper, permanent 4wd system, it’s been brilliant in the recent snow. It will be interesting to find the limits if we get some proper dumpings this winter.
 
It used to be very interesting getting folk out of snow. We were supplied various 4x4 vehicles. The trickiest by far was the Subaru Impreza, but once you got the hang of it in snow/Ice, it was a blast. I left the Traffic Dept in 2003 - so most of the cars I refer to are dated.

But, if you wanted, you could do the off-road course. We were trained to used Landrovers and Discoveries, and learned this in a disused quarry(Metheringham is a name that springs to mind). We also did lots and lots of skid pan training. Both these courses were invaluable, and the skills have stayed with me since.

I got to drive some lovely motors for folk who just couldn't handle the poor conditions.

IMHO and experience, the problem with 4x4's are that once they let go in bad conditions, its very difficult to get them back. People can tend to push things a little more, as the 4x4 will help/save them, but once you go beyond a certain point...
 
Spikes are the answer.

Not in the tyres, in the middle of the steering wheel. Drive like you’re about to be impaled and you drive more gently and cautiously.
 
RJohan said:
Yes, here in Sweden everybody has winter tyres and I don't think I ever seen chains in use.

About RWD/FWD/4WD. Until not many years ago, most Swedish farmers used RWD Volvos, they live out in the wilderness and didn't seem to have any problems.
The best winter cars I've used has all been RWD, dads old Lada, an even older VW and my own first gen Merc C-klass. With them anyone could be a pretend rally driver round the corners. Even my mum drifted around the corners in the Lada, 'It's easier, you don't have to turn the steering wheel as much'.
The bad ones has all been FWD's. An Honda ATR was worst, with an LSD in the winter booth wheels just spun when you applied the throttle. Older SAAB's with the handbrake on the front wheels (how did they think?).
The other winter the neighbour with an 4WD tried to get up a not very steep slope. Result? Spinning with all 4 wheels and getting nowhere. Never had a 4WD myself, so I'm not the expert.
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9 years driving 120 km a day in Finland here, mostly with Volvo V70s. I liked the FWD (with proper Nokia winter tyres, snow tread plus lots of studs) as I could always get out of trouble by oversteering and accelerating. Handbrake on the rear wheels! Had an A6 Quattro for a while and always wondered what I would do if that started to slide in the wrong direction (but it never did).
 
There’s a hidden menu on my Merc’s dash that allows me, among other things, to fully turn off abs, traction control and esp. if we get some decent snow I might try it on the car park at work. Not sure they’d allow me to use the runway, which is a shame.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
There’s a hidden menu on my Merc’s dash that allows me, among other things, to fully turn off abs, traction control and esp. if we get some decent snow I might try it on the car park at work. Not sure they’d allow me to use the runway, which is a shame.
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AIUI even then, MB do not remove all of the digital nannies. Maybe enough to doughnut in the white stuff, though.
 
Seeker_UK said:
AIUI even then, MB do not remove all of the digital nannies. Maybe enough to doughnut in the white stuff, though.
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No no, this is a hidden menu that is only accessible while stationary, engine off. The ‘Assist’ menu to turn stuff off is in the regular menu, accessible while driving. It’s called Dyno Mode to allow proper testing and diagnosis.

 
Tony Lockhart said:
No no, this is a hidden menu that is only accessible while stationary, engine off. The ‘Assist’ menu to turn stuff off is in the regular menu, accessible while driving. It’s called Dyno Mode to allow proper testing and diagnosis.

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An interesting thread here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/600528-dyno-mode.html

It may switch it off completely (C63, possibly all W204s), it may not as stateb by the ML driver. Be interesting to know what happens to yours.

It does switch off PAS though...
 
No matter what the make of car, type of tyre, RW or Fw or 4W drive; if you don't know the basics of how to drive in ice or snow you're going to be in trouble.

I used to live in a village in Scotland about 800 feet above sea level. When I moved to the East Midlands 40 years ago I was mystified when traffic ground to a halt in a few centimetres of snow. o_O
 
narabdela said:
No matter what the make of car, type of tyre, RW or Fw or 4W drive; if you don't know the basics of how to drive in ice or snow you're going to be in trouble.
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Obviously. And, just as obviously, one poor driver can block the whole road.
Leave in plenty of time, take it easy, and anticipate/observe.
 
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