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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VII

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zarniwoop said:
One of the reasons offered for Brexit is to get control over our money, so instead of giving it to the EU and getting some back in local grants, the UK Govt can decide for us where the money is spent. I'm sure that given the choice between road repairs in Shetland and a lucrative backhander to old Spotty Bumsworthy from Eton days this lot will do the right thing.
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If the Tories don't deliver on their promises you have your right to contribute to sacking them at the next GE.
 
wacko said:
If the EU/Euro is such a bad deal, particularly for Mediterranean fringe, how come no country wants to leave ?
When tourists descend on Greece they pay in Euro not devalued drachma as 20 years ago.
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They have sold their soul to the devil as they have become accustomed to being subsidised by the magic money tree.
 
Brian said:
Which is exactly how I understood his point. I did begin to write something earlier but sadly I anticipated a moving of the goalposts so I scrapped it. Whether you or anybody else believes me isn’t something I’m bothered about.

What is of interest is why you think I didn’t understand something because I disagree with his point and now with you.

By the way, there was no real ‘tone’ to my post. I replied to a post and you them dived in to patronise me by telling me I missed the point.
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I'm interested that you think the following doesn't really have a 'tone':
Eh? What on earth does this have to do with anything? You’re comparing those towns with national economies. Laughable. :D:D
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I'm also interested to learn what, in that post, gives me (or anybody else) grounds to believe you understood it.

Interesting, finally, that you think 'laughable' isn't patronising, but me giving my view that you'd missed the point is. Noting that my assumption you'd missed the point was, at heart, giving you the benefit of the doubt. The only other interpretation I've been able to come up with was that you were unable or unwilling* to express disagreement with the post by taking issue with its content, and could only resort to insult.

I think it's telling that you invariably think the fault always lies elsewhere than with you. And any of us who beg to differ are 'the usual suspects'.

*this has been common in your responses. Carp, but almost never engage critically.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Na na ni na na would be childish, Brian, and I try not to do that. I was, however, deliberately responding in exactly the same tone and style you'd used, so if you found it annoying...
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'm interested that you think the following doesn't really have a 'tone':

I'm also interested to learn what, in that post, gives me (or anybody else) grounds to believe you understood it.

Interesting, finally, that you think 'laughable' isn't patronising, but me giving my view that you'd missed the point is. Noting that my assumption you'd missed the point was, at heart, giving you the benefit of the doubt. The only other interpretation I've been able to come up with was that you were unable or unwilling* to express disagreement with the post by taking issue with its content, and could only resort to insult.

I think it's telling that you invariably think the fault always lies elsewhere than with you. And any of us who beg to differ are 'the usual suspects'.

*this has been common in your responses. Carp, but almost never engage critically.
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Good luck Steve well done for going to all that effort to explain in great detail what we can all clearly see. But this guy is stuck in a permanent loop of self delusion and is very happy in that space. I think he is modelling his approach and responses on the D Trump playbook.
 
Colin Barron said:
If the Tories don't deliver on their promises you have your right to contribute to sacking them at the next GE.
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This is trotted out time after time and whilst true it conveniently ignores the colossal damage done in the interim. Circa 60,000 excess deaths, tens of billions squandered and syphoned into pockets of incompetents and Tory donors ( often one and the same), the short to medium term cost and damage caused by Brexit of whichever hue...

So vote however you want in four years time, none of that is coming back or being overturned is it? I suppose you get to enjoy the visceral rush of punitive power as you wield your blunt pencil in the voting booth.

On top of that, factor in the ability of our elitist press barons to brainwash the electorate one more time in a deeply flawed electoral system and where does that take us?

Will they point to those culpable for the catastrophical failings or will sleight of hand and misdirection let them off the hook and make possible their re-election?
 
tuga said:
Can you back that up with some numbers?

How much of the problem is down to national governments' policies?
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You're our numbers man. Why don't you do a Google scrape and dump like you normally do.

One small point; the EU's own publications might only give part of the story.
 
Neither, and I wasn't talking about specific figures or reports. I merely stated that when you do your Google scrapes, bear in mind that EU published figures are likely only to give part of the story. You linked to something on cohesion funds upstream, for example. Well, they are only part of the bigger picture.

Bear in mind also that nothing published by the Commission press department will contain an iota of self-criticism. Every word is carefully crafted.
 
zarniwoop said:
One of the reasons offered for Brexit is to get control over our money, so instead of giving it to the EU and getting some back in local grants, the UK Govt can decide for us where the money is spent. I'm sure that given the choice between road repairs in Shetland and a lucrative backhander to old Spotty Bumsworthy from Eton days this lot will do the right thing.
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One of the reasons offered for supporting the SNP in their quest for breaking up the UK is Brexit and for Scotland to ‘have control’. I can’t say this is control of money since the SNP doesn’t even have a plan for a currency. Anyway, it’s useful to know this isn’t true because some were voting for nationalism before brexit was even a thing.
 
zarniwoop said:
FPTP means my vote is effectively useless. There is a relatively small number of constituencies that have a realistic chance of sacking the Tories.
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Yes, fewer now Scots have transferred 40 seats away from the only party that could have replaced the tories. I guess that’s irrelevant, though.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'm interested that you think the following doesn't really have a 'tone':

I'm also interested to learn what, in that post, gives me (or anybody else) grounds to believe you understood it.

Interesting, finally, that you think 'laughable' isn't patronising, but me giving my view that you'd missed the point is. Noting that my assumption you'd missed the point was, at heart, giving you the benefit of the doubt. The only other interpretation I've been able to come up with was that you were unable or unwilling* to express disagreement with the post by taking issue with its content, and could only resort to insult.

I think it's telling that you invariably think the fault always lies elsewhere than with you. And any of us who beg to differ are 'the usual suspects'.

*this has been common in your responses. Carp, but almost never engage critically.
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I was actually talking about my reply to you, I hadn’t realised you were speaking for someone else, but whatever...

So the crux is, you patronise me because you think I patronised someone else. Are you his dad?

The reason I didn’t explain why I disagreed with the post you’re now obsessed with is because the suggestion is so absurd it needs no explanation of why that is. You are free to make whatever incorrect interpretation you like, I have already posted why I did not expand on it further.

I love the last bit, btw. Maybe you’ll post similar at one of the hard remainer gang who does little else... :D
Brexit: give me a positive effect... VII
 
eternumviti said:
Neither, and I wasn't talking about specific figures or reports. I merely stated that when you do your Google scrapes, bear in mind that EU published figures are likely only to give part of the story. You linked to something on cohesion funds upstream, for example. Well, they are only part of the bigger picture.

Bear in mind also that nothing published by the Commission press department will contain an iota of self-criticism. Every word is carefully crafted.
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I can give you a first-hand experience of having lived in Portugal through the '80s, '90s, 00's and half of the '10s. You won't be able to Google it. It complements the story to make up the bigger picture.

It hasn't been all roses – corruption and machination and interference by the big boys – but the balance is very positive, at least 80/20. You've been to Portugal then and now, you may actually have seen some evidence.
In my view there could have been a bit more of a nanny-stateness or "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" attitude from the EU but I think that you would actually object to that sort of vassalage. The overly-optimistic conversion rate of the Escudo to the Euro was set by the Portuguese Government of the day as was the Negotiation of Common Fisheries and Common Agriculture Policies. Likewise with the strategic investment of funds (this changed later, for the better in my view). Mistakes were made from both parts but overall things have improved immensely.
 
Brian, our exchange is now becoming a waste of bandwidth. You’ve just retreated into your usual ‘it doesn’t deserve a considered response’ mode, so I’ll just leave the exchange at that, and people can take what they want from it.
 
zarniwoop said:
FPTP means my vote is effectively useless. There is a relatively small number of constituencies that have a realistic chance of sacking the Tories.
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There were a few more Labour MPs than the present 199 before the remainer clearances last December but that could change at the next GE if the Tories don't deliver. At least in the UK it is possible to change direction.
 
tuga said:
I can give you a first-hand experience of having lived in Portugal through the '80s, '90s, 00's and half of the '10s. You won't be able to Google it. It complements the story to make up the bigger picture.

It hasn't been all roses – corruption and machination and interference by the big boys – but the balance is very positive, at least 80/20. You've been to Portugal then and now, you may actually have seen some evidence.
In my view there could have been a bit more of a nanny-stateness or "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" attitude from the EU but I think that you would actually object to that sort of vassalage. The overly-optimistic conversion rate of the Escudo to the Euro was set by the Portuguese Government of the day as was the Negotiation of Common Fisheries and Common Agriculture Policies. Likewise with the strategic investment of funds (this changed later, for the better in my view). Mistakes were made from both parts but overall things have improved immensely.
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Yes, I certainly agree with most of what you say. I first travelled through Portugal in 1984, and although I've been to Porto a few times in the late 1980s, I didn't then go back until last year, to Lisbon. The transformation was extraordinary.
 
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