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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

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A positive for Lamb producers in other countries anyhow.

This kind of stuff really annoys me though.

“If the EU imposes tariffs, many farmers will no longer have customers for their produce, and their businesses could easily collapse,”

The EU is not ‘imposing’ tariffs. The U.K. would be choosing a route that makes tariffs inevitable. More placing the blame elsewhere.

Farmers were warned about this, especially in Wales. But again, all concerns were dismissed out of hand.

Stephen
 
farfromthesun said:
"Maintaining our place in the Single Market", "£350m for the NHS", "easiest deal in history", "tough on immigration" etc etc were all prominently punted as benefits of Brexit, and many would have voted based on such information. That these "sunlit uplands" have dissolved so pitifully leaving us on the brink of a no deal leads me to conclude that the people were either completely duped by the false promises made, or that they're thick as pigshit for not seeing the ruse - simply one or the other. Again, not sure how this squares up with Remainers being at fault.
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Brian said:
And you call other people thick as pigshit.
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farfromthesun said:
No I didn't, but I will ask - Is that what you're calling me?
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Sorry if that reference of yours to people being as thick as pigshit isn’t what you said but it certainly looks like it.

No, of course not. Judging by your posts I would not say you specifically are thick as pigshit.

They were the (not very pleasant) words you used to describe a large group you believe could not see the obvious. I’m using your own words for the group unable to see the obvious part in brexit played by remain supporters who helped enabled a tory govt.
 
Brian said:
Sorry if that reference of yours to people being as thick as pigshit isn’t what you said but it certainly looks like it.

No, of course not. Judging by your posts I would not say you specifically are thick as pigshit.

They were the (not very pleasant) words you used to describe a large group you believe could not see the obvious. I’m using your own words for the group unable to see the obvious part in brexit played by remain supporters who helped enabled a tory govt.
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Very good, but what would you say, specifically, that I am as thick as, then?

In all seriousness, you appear to have missed the entire point; my statement offered a choice between two possible reasons that referendum voters didn't see the threat of a "no deal" as a serious outcome - an outcome that you claim was "obvious."
me said:
the people were either completely duped by the false promises made, or that they're thick as pigshit for not seeing the ruse - simply one or the other.
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Then I listed many of the false promises (there were probably more):
me said:
"Maintaining our place in the Single Market", "£350m for the NHS", "easiest deal in history", "tough on immigration" etc etc
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I would imagine that many, many people would have been voting for Brexit due to the promises, such as those above, making it look like something worthwhile.

So I ask you, are they just thick, or were they duped? Or was it something else? In my view, enough people were conned into believing that there were going to be tangible benefits - like those listed above, and that's what probably got it over the line. The idea that these people, or anything other than a very small number of disaster capitalist nutcases were voting with an awareness that it could lead to a no deal is absolutely for the birds.
 
farfromthesun said:
Very good, but what would you say, specifically, that I am as thick as, then?

In all seriousness, you appear to have missed the entire point; my statement offered a choice between two possible reasons that referendum voters didn't see the threat of a "no deal" as a serious outcome - an outcome that you claim was "obvious."


Then I listed many of the false promises (there were probably more):


I would imagine that many, many people would have been voting for Brexit due to the promises, such as those above, making it look like something worthwhile.

So I ask you, are they just thick, or were they duped? Or was it something else? In my view, enough people were conned into believing that there were going to be tangible benefits - like those listed above, and that's what probably got it over the line. The idea that these people, or anything other than a very small number of disaster capitalist nutcases were voting with an awareness that it could lead to a no deal is absolutely for the birds.
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This is all water under the bridge, we are no longer in the EU. Car sales are in reverse and Barnier is fishing for a reasonable deal.
 
farfromthesun said:
Very good, but what would you say, specifically, that I am as thick as, then?

In all seriousness, you appear to have missed the entire point; my statement offered a choice between two possible reasons that referendum voters didn't see the threat of a "no deal" as a serious outcome - an outcome that you claim was "obvious."


Then I listed many of the false promises (there were probably more):


I would imagine that many, many people would have been voting for Brexit due to the promises, such as those above, making it look like something worthwhile.

So I ask you, are they just thick, or were they duped? Or was it something else? In my view, enough people were conned into believing that there were going to be tangible benefits - like those listed above, and that's what probably got it over the line. The idea that these people, or anything other than a very small number of disaster capitalist nutcases were voting with an awareness that it could lead to a no deal is absolutely for the birds.
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In all seriousness, I said in my last post that I don't think you're thick. If there is doubt I will delete the earlier post.

As for the rest, it's clearly important to you but 4.5 years down the line, having accepted the outcome of the referendum I don't feel any need to think about whether people were thick or were duped.

As I said earlier, I believe people who voted leave did so making the fair assumption the UK would trade with any country that is willing and able for us to trade with, so I believe it was assumed there would be "trade deals" made after leaving. Does that mean they voted for leaving with "no deal"? So, while nobody voted for any specific deal, they simply voted to leave and trusted there would be deals done. I don't know if I'm expressing this very well but anyway, what exactly was considered to be meant by the term "leaving with no deal" BEFORE the referendum vote, not afterward when the likes of May was saying stuff like "leaving with no deal is better than leaving with a bad deal"?
 
Colin Barron said:
The UK and the EU are getting “closer and closer” to a Brexit trade deal, according to diplomats in Brussels. EU officials are said to be gearing up to negotiate until as late as mid-November to avoid a damaging no-deal scenario at the end of the year.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-starmer-lockdown-update-latest-b828659.html
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Link one has articles “EU says no deal Brexit becoming ever more likely” and “EU and U.K. make minor progress but big gulfs on big issues”. Have you been ‘spray and pray’ googling again?
 
Colin Barron said:
This is all water under the bridge, we are no longer in the EU. Car sales are in reverse and Barnier is fishing for a reasonable deal.
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In 2017, the United Kingdom produced 1.75 million motor vehicles, exporting 800,000 of these within the European Union.

The other way around, less than 3 out of 10 cars made in the EU are exported (27.4%), with roughly one third of total exports heading to the UK (or 11.7% of total production).

https://www.acea.be/news/article/au...n-the-united-kingdom-and-its-main-eu-partners
 
Brian said:
.....ANYONE who helped enable the tories to win seats......
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That does include all the people who kept Corbyn in power long after it was clear he was a liability. You have to motivate people to vote for you and Labour forgot that rule.
 
russel said:
That does include all the people who kept Corbyn in power long after it was clear he was a liability.
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I wonder who they were.

russel said:
You have to motivate people to vote for you and Labour forgot that rule.
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Added to the list of reasons that helped enable a tory govt and brexit, along with the one you posted the other day. How many more do you have?
 
tuga said:
In 2017, the United Kingdom produced 1.75 million motor vehicles, exporting 800,000 of these within the European Union.

The other way around, less than 3 out of 10 cars made in the EU are exported (27.4%), with roughly one third of total exports heading to the UK (or 11.7% of total production).

https://www.acea.be/news/article/au...n-the-united-kingdom-and-its-main-eu-partners
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No wonder Angela is having meetings with Barnier, German car exports to UK 22.7 billion Euros, imports from the UK 4.2 billion Euros.
 
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