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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

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farfromthesun said:
"Maintaining our place in the Single Market", "£350m for the NHS", "easiest deal in history", "tough on immigration" etc etc were all prominently punted as benefits of Brexit, and many would have voted based on such information. That these "sunlit uplands" have dissolved so pitifully leaving us on the brink of a no deal leads me to conclude that the people were either completely duped by the false promises made, or that they're thick as pigshit for not seeing the ruse - simply one or the other. Again, not sure how this squares up with Remainers being at fault.
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And you call other people thick as pigshit.
 
stephen bennett said:
What I get out of following this thread is —

—that the leave supporters on here have spent hundreds of words explaining why they can't list the benefits of leaving the EU because remainers wouldn't understand them.

And that the whole thing is the fault of those who voted to remain.

Leave voters are not responsible at all, either for Brexit or the current Government, especially those that maintain they support the Labour party.

Stephen
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You should read it again then and as many times as it takes, because nobody has said any of that.
 
Brian said:
Try cutting out the sarcasm.

It was in the post you quoted.
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BrExit brought us racism, a sort of civil war, an alt-right Government and HoC majority with an idiot for a Prime Minister driven by an unelected bureaucrat, wasted money, wasted time, nurse and medic shortages, insomnia, unrest, depression.
What part of this is not true?
What part of this is the responsibility of Remainers?
 
TheDecameron said:
North Sea Singapore but without the living standards.
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To be fair, we have the same living standards. Brexit voters just hadn’t appreciated that the standards that applied to most of them would be similar to the ones Singapore applies to its migrant worker population.
 
tuga said:
BrExit brought us racism, a sort of civil war, an alt-right Government and HoC majority with an idiot for a Prime Minister driven by an unelected bureaucrat, wasted money, wasted time, nurse and medic shortages, insomnia, unrest, depression.
What part of this is not true?
What part of this is the responsibility of Remainers?
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This has nothing to do with your sarcasm earlier. There is a pattern.

Why are you asking me? Surely you’ve worked out I attach responsibility for the present situation on those who helped enable a tory govt?

You can’t tell me anything I don’t already know about the tory party and their destructive ideology. You’ve hardly been here a dog-watch, I lived through the debacle of the previous tory wrecking ball and would never help enable them into govt.
 
'Singapore was canny when I was there.'

It is unless you want to vote for the opposition party in which case you are sent away for 'correction'. Johnson and Cummings would like a dictatorship too.
 
Brian said:
This has nothing to do with your sarcasm earlier. There is a pattern.

Why are you asking me? Surely you’ve worked out I attach responsibility for the present situation on those who helped enable a tory govt?...
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I think a fair question arises as to how much those who voted Leave in 2016 helped enable a Tory govt. My view is that Brexit not only revived the party fortunes after half a decade of miserable austerity, but also wedged them firmly into a position of being able to leverage the support for Brexit into support for Tory Brexit. While also enabling and empowering the very worst of the Tory right.

I think you have to acknowledge the central role that the Brexit vote played in bringing us to where we are now. If you excuse that by arguing that Brexit voters couldn’t have foreseen the present scenario, then you should also recognise that those who voted anti-Brexit in 2019 might similarly deserve the benefit of the doubt, especially given the LibDems’ bullishness about its likely vote share, and the 4-D chessboard that tactical voting has lately become.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think a fair question arises as to how much those who voted Leave in 2016 helped enable a Tory govt. My view is that Brexit not only revived the party fortunes after half a decade of miserable austerity, but also wedged them firmly into a position of being able to leverage the support for Brexit into support for Tory Brexit. While also enabling and empowering the very worst of the Tory right.

I think you have to acknowledge the central role that the Brexit vote played in bringing us to where we are now. If you excuse that by arguing that Brexit voters couldn’t have foreseen the present scenario, then you should also recognise that those who voted anti-Brexit in 2019 might similarly deserve the benefit of the doubt, especially given the LibDems’ bullishness about its likely vote share, and the 4-D chessboard that tactical voting has lately become.
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I think the part played by those who voted leave is accepted by everyone, despite some of the weird posts from other members that suggest not.

The bit that is not accepted is the responsibility of remainers who voted in a way that helped enable a tory govt starting in 2010.

I think what you may be missing from my pov Steve is that although people are categorised here as remain/leave, I'm not really all that bothered about that. ANYONE who helped enable the tories to win seats, or who helped prevent Labour winning seats has helped the tories win 4 successive elections in the last decade and therefore has some responsibility for brexit, imo. That's because brexit is all about the tory party. I don't care if these people are leave or remain supporters, I don't even care which party they vote for, but they should understand that how they vote does not come without consequences. All those threads undermining Labour about <insert any old nonsense here> has an effect when it is seen all over social media as well. There is a price.

There is much more to brexit than voting leave in one referendum in 2016.
 
Brian said:
I think the part played by those who voted leave is accepted by everyone, despite some of the weird posts from other members that suggest not.

The bit that is not accepted is the responsibility of remainers who voted in a way that helped enable a tory govt starting in 2010.
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If you are referring to Remainers who didn't vote Green I agree.
 
Brian said:
I think the part played by those who voted leave is accepted by everyone, despite some of the weird posts from other members that suggest not.

The bit that is not accepted is the responsibility of remainers who voted in a way that helped enable a tory govt starting in 2010.

I think what you may be missing from my pov Steve is that although people are categorised here as remain/leave, I'm not really all that bothered about that. ANYONE who helped enable the tories to win seats, or who helped prevent Labour winning seats has helped the tories win 4 successive elections in the last decade and therefore has some responsibility for brexit, imo. That's because brexit is all about the tory party. I don't care if these people are leave or remain supporters, I don't even care which party they vote for, but they should understand that how they vote does not come without consequences. All those threads undermining Labour about <insert any old nonsense here> has an effect when it is seen all over social media as well. There is a price.

There is much more to brexit than voting leave in one referendum in 2016.
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OK, that's an interesting POV, I think, and I can see where you're coming from. The Brexit referendum didn't appear fully-formed from nowhere in 2016, but has been building in Tory circles for many years, so any enabling of the Tory party must have played a part in an inexorable drift Brexit-wards.

BTW, I think some of what you describe as the weird postings may well be ironic, in that regard. The responsibility of Leave voters for Brexit is a given, but the responsibility of Remain voters is somewhat counterintuitive, and may give rise to a rather ironic tone in some cases.
 
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