Coronavirus - the new strain X

[Tony L]

Mass unemployment is inevitable unless they furlough people on their actual wages.

The area no one ever talks about are the countless new businesses that were too recent to get Sunak’s helicopter money and therefore will likely sink without trace. I suspect we’ll lose a heck of a lot of perfectly viable businesses right across the board that had survived their first or second years, but didn’t get to the three years acounts stage to be eligible.

PS I still feel that bail-out was quite odd in a lot of ways, e.g. it didn’t ask the claimant to qualify loss in any statistical way, only to state covid 19 had impacted their business to some degree, which basically applies to everyone. It didn’t means-test either, which again is rather strange.

 

[tonerei]

The area no one ever talks about are the countless new businesses that were too recent to get Sunak’s helicopter money and therefore will likely sink without trace. I suspect we’ll lose a heck of a lot of perfectly viable businesses right across the board that had survived their first or second years, but didn’t get to the three years acounts stage to be eligible.

PS I still feel that bail-out was quite odd in a lot of ways, e.g. it didn’t ask the claimant to qualify loss in any statistical way, only to state covid 19 had impacted their business to some degree, which basically applies to everyone. It didn’t means-test either, which again is rather strange.

My simplistic take on it is the EU needed to come to a decision centrally to support incomes based on what was earned at end of the previous tax year. Print money to pay this to people who cannot work and deal with the potential inflation it might cause. To me that was the only hope to prevent an abyss of job losses and misery. Focusing on covid and lockdowns would be much easier.

 

[gavreid]

Mass unemployment is inevitable unless they furlough people on their actual wages. That isn't going to happen. Try my best not to think to0 hard about what will unfold both from a covid and economy viewpoint over the next 1-5yrs. It is to my way of thinking possibly the equivalent to WW3 without any armies taking the field.

The danger in the UK is that benefits are so poor - much worse than in the 80s and very low by European standards. For the past decade the mood music has been around scroungers, people who have too many rooms in their houses or too many kids, and unaffordable benefits - even for the disabled.

 

[gavreid]

...PS I still feel that bail-out was quite odd in a lot of ways, e.g. it didn’t ask the claimant to qualify loss in any statistical way, only to state covid 19 had impacted their business to some degree, which basically applies to everyone. It didn’t means-test either, which again is rather strange.

I think so too. It was certainly hurried - I remember posting something early on that explained that the treasury had failed to make any plans at all for a pandemic, even though the possibllity ad been discussed at cabinet level

 

[wyjsar]

My point is that mass unemployment in the middle of a pandemic is really not a very good idea. You might think so, and that's what I find offensive - together with your patronising comment above and your general trolling around covid denial. I meant you are the Tory. Another 4422 cases today among those fortunate enough to be able to get a test, 27 dead and another 200 admitted to hospital in England alone who won't be laughing along with you either.

Mass unemployment in the middle of a pandemic isn't a good idea - agreed. Where have I said that it is? Covid denial - where the fvck do you get that idea from given my posts? I am "the Tory"?

 

[Andrew C!]

Does it not strike you as wrong that the penalties have to be so high for enforcing behaviour that should be voluntary?

Seriously. The fines are literally for not doing what the government is telling us what to do.

Who do you want to manage a pandemic? No rules, no advice, no laws, no support, no expertise, just everyone following common sense.

Libertarian cops. I can’t keep up.

@Seanm I include @russel post, as that was the one I was responding to, including his/her use of the word 'voluntary'. I think you have taken my response out of context by not linking it to the post I was responding to.

There is lots of behaviour, that should be 'voluntary', that has had to be covered by legislation 'cos some folk don't comply!

Also, and I suspect this is the case here, you might suggest I clarify my position, and what I was replying to, before having another go at me? It may well be that I have not sufficiently explained myself clearly enough in responding to a post, and I am happy to clarify things accordingly if needed.

FWIW again I say that the media strategy by the government is like a colander in some/many instances, and we are having to pick the bits out of it and interpret accordingly. I'm having to compromise accordingly also by filtering said info from them, plus lots of info from elsewhere. Some people have more capacity, and willingness, to do this than others, don't they? Or should I hang on the governments every word and believe/do everything they recommend?

 

[wacko]

How many times has BJ been on live tv to explain Govt policy on Covid in the last 6 months ?
Jacinda Ardern was on every day during NZ lockdown. And many times before and after. And took some feisty questions from journalists.
Talking about 'Gold Standard' responses to the pandemic: Jacinda is the Gold Standard.

 

[Andrew C!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54221953

Contains a little more info on the specifics of who will be possibly fined for what, regarding self-isolating breaches.

 

[stephen bennett]

If you want to understand why this is a political issue read this.


The meritocracy has had its day. How else to explain the rise of Dido Harding?

Harding has replicated the business model (of Talk Talk) at the NHS test-and-trace service. A leak to the Health Service Journalshowed senior management was stuffed with ex-executives from Jaguar Land Rover, Travelex, Waitrose and, inevitably, TalkTalk. Only one member of its executive committee has a background in public health. No wonder we cannot get tests when we need them.

Stephen

 

[ks.234]

If the government is serious about self isolation, they should pay the wages of people who have been told to isolate. People on zero hours, and others, will not be able to take two weeks off without pay.

 

[SteveS1]

If the government is serious about self isolation, they should pay the wages of people who have been told to isolate. People on zero hours, and others, will not be able to take two weeks off without pay.

I'd agree with that in principle, how would you validate the payments?

 

[gavreid]

If you want to understand why this is a political issue read this.


The meritocracy has had its day. How else to explain the rise of Dido Harding?

Harding has replicated the business model (of Talk Talk) at the NHS test-and-trace service. A leak to the Health Service Journalshowed senior management was stuffed with ex-executives from Jaguar Land Rover, Travelex, Waitrose and, inevitably, TalkTalk. Only one member of its executive committee has a background in public health. No wonder we cannot get tests when we need them.

Stephen

Falconer has raised the lack of accountability today (better late than never I suppose)

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ent-corrupting-our-constitution-lord-falconer

 

[stephen bennett]

Nobody seems to have addressed the point I made about the significant number of people going for tests who don't actually need them. I've been subject to two total unnecessary, albeit private, ones to date.

I did.

I asked for these data from you on ‘unnecessary tests’ (not anecdotal or just Hancock’s speeches).

I also mentioned that kids were being sent home from school with sniffles and sneezes (not a Covid symptom) high temperature (rarely a symptom-see the Zoe app data).

The only way for them to get back to work is a test.

The ‘unnecessary’ test rhetoric is a political ruse to hide a lack of testing capacity that was completely predictable.

Stephen

 

[Richard Lines]

Good Morning All,

It's no use I am going to have to say what I really think here as some people are clearly on a different planet to the one I inhabit.

COVID-19 isn't the most important thing we need to be worrying about right now. The massive fires in Australia earlier this year, the current massive fires across the three US western states and the those in Siberia, large lumps of glaciers falling off the Antarctic ice shelf along with increasing severity of all manner of meteorological events are far more significant. The planet is trying to tell us something and such as SARS/ COVID is maybe a mother 'message'?

Even the worst case figure of 400k deaths in the UK would only have amounted to 0.006% of the population. My 85year old neighbour up the hill hasn't altered anything she has done since the outset of the pandemic and accepts if it happens it happens.

Somebody on this forum earlier stated that a society is judged by how it treats the old/ sick or something similar. I agree with the outline principal but you don't bring an economy to its knees by blindly following this to a logical conclusion.

IMHO if everybody WAS following the rules that were in place a couple of weeks back we wouldn't be where we are now.

We simply cannot afford to continue furlough schemes.

 

[ks.234]

I'd agree with that in principle, how would you validate the payments?

There appears little validation of the £100bn of public money given to private firms that don’t exist or rely on technology that doesn’t exist, so just use some of that!

 

[Richard Lines]

The only way for them to get back to work is a test.

No - the relevant people doing the excluding need to be told to follow the rules regarding COVID symptoms and have their decisions overturned as necessary. Far more pre-screening/ triage is necessary.

Let's give the existing system a chance and look to expand it

 

[ks.234]

Hancock on Marr blaming failure of testing on too many people asking for tests. He said that in the summer we had plenty of capacity for testing, that’s a lie, people working in care homes have been struggling to get tested since the outset of the pandemic.

 

[SteveS1]

There appears little validation of the £100bn of public money given to private firms that don’t exist or rely on technology that doesn’t exist, so just use some of that!

Yes I agree and that needs dealing with. But I'm wondering how you would operate the compensation, given that government systems have proved very poor at targeting the correct people and not falling easy prey to large scale fraud. I'm not sure that knowing a corrupt government is spunking public money to cronies, appalling as it is, helps solve that.

 

[ks.234]

Yes I agree and that needs dealing with. But I'm wondering how you would operate the compensation, given that government systems have proved very poor at targeting the correct people and not falling easy prey to large scale fraud. I'm not sure that knowing a corrupt government is spunking public money to cronies, appalling as it is, helps solve that.

If the government can target people in order to fine them £10,000, why can’t it use the same targeting system to give them the money they need to live ?

 

[stephen bennett]

No - the relevant people doing the excluding need to be told to follow the rules regarding COVID symptoms and have their decisions overturned as necessary. Far more pre-screening/ triage is necessary.

In an ideal world that may be true. But schools and businesses are trying to protect themselves and their staff. The Government has also, until now, ignored the symptom data from the Zoe app. They are still saying a high temperature is one if the main symptoms when actual symptom tracing has shown it’s not. The taste and smell symptom was discovered by the App btw. It took months for the Government to add this to the symptom list.

As the professor who developed the App said “a more reliable test than temperature would be to see if they could smell ground coffee”.

So you see, schools are following Government guidelines. Even though the data suggests they may force those unlikely to have Covid to get a test.

We also need mass testing anyhow to see how prevalent the disease is. As it is we have no idea. This was understood at the start of the outbreak.

Any news on these data to back up your ‘unnecessary’ test claim?

I’d like to add that the politicisation comes from the Government making unfounded claims. I’d have more sympathy for the lack of testing (it’s a really difficult thing to do this quickly) if the Government hadn’t sidelined local health experience for companies who have no expertise in health care or spent billions on ineffective systems or bragged (and continue to brag) about how amazing they are. It’s not as if no one told them this was a bad idea.

Add in Johnson’s natural instinct to lie and obfuscate while promising the unachievable-this is why some of us believe that politics has made this situation much worse.

Stephen