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The (almost) bi-polar nature of Naim's products and customers . . .

Curtis said:
I’ve always fancied trying one of their cdps. Can they do soundstage at all?
Also any good as a transport?
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They give precise image focus but do not have the sort of soundstage you get with valves and vinyl. I go, or used to go, to a lot of live classical acoustic concerts and do not hear a soundstage as such, so it is not important to me. They can be harsh, and are certainly dynamic, but it depends on which surface they are placed on. I have a heavyweight Target stand with spiked wooden top shelf.

The CDX2.2 does have a digital output for a DAC but I find that the Naim DAC is fine, though in some ways the famous CD3 DAC is better.
 
My amp set up just now is my NAC 72 with an on loan Hi-cap and "Avondaled" NAP 250*.
Sounds bloody marvellous!

* (I had to return a pair of 12" Tannoys in place of the amp and ps. Now that would have been something! Still, making do with my trusty Rega Elas. Oh the hardship...:))
 
The CD players I’ve had (2 and 5) have both sounded lovely, certainly not harsh. Only snag is no digital output on these models so wouldn’t work for me now.

As for the age old debate, if you like it, buy it. If you don’t, don’t buy it.
 
Del monaco said:
I’m no longer a Naim owner but Ive never found the cdp’s sharp and edgy. They are often very tightly focused and are especially good with voices I feel.
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The ones I heard were CD 3 and 5, in mixed systems and other more expensive ones at shows that obviously went through Naim amps. They all had the house sound to me.
The thing is that we don't all hear the same. One man's exciting is another man's harsh. For me Exposure is exciting going on harsh, but I can live with it. Naim is just harsh. I like Quad 57s, plenty don't. That's fine by me, if you don't like it get something else.
 
Curtis said:
I’ve always fancied trying one of their cdps. Can they do soundstage at all?
Also any good as a transport?
Click to expand...
My Rotel 965 does big soundstage.
My Naim CDX2.2 doesn't really do that. It does do musical expression though and the Rotel can't compete with that.
 
stevec67 said:
Who do you think you are? My saying it's harsh and edgy is obviously my opinion, one that happens to be shared by others. As such it's just as valid as yours and it's a fact that this is my opinion. As for a condescending prick, look no further than your mirror. What is it about Naim owners that they can't bear anyone saying they don't like the sound? Are you so insecure? Now grow up.
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I don't care that you don't like the sound, but it is you expecting everyone else to accept your opinion as gospel that grates and then the fact you're too self entitled to see that you're being a bit of a chump about it. I may or may not like the sound of your system, but if I didn't like it I certainly wouldn't start gobbing off on a forum about how you're somehow wrong for liking it and implying how much better I am because I don't like it. What is it about ex/non Naim owners that they can't leave people that like the brand to their music?
 
Minio said:
My Rotel 965 does big soundstage.
My Naim CDX2.2 doesn't really do that. It does do musical expression though and the Rotel can't compete with that.
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I believe it’s the artist that does the musical expression and the CD player conveys this. I think the Rotel conveys the expression well. Naim is interesting.IME it pushes the mids forward for a very immediate and visceral experience. However it seems sacrifice the soundstage especially the width so Classical is not so great. It can be brilliant but I remember playing Tom Waits Mule Variations and his voice sounded overblown, almost fat and it was fatiguing really.
 
I'm an almost ex-Naim owner (all I have now is a CD2 and some speaker cable) yet I still rate the brand, so I'm not sure where I fit in this argument — the gorilla or the planes.

CdNBfFJWwAAcfqp.jpg:large


Actually, I want to be the gorilla. Gorillas are awesome!

Joe
 
Naim seems to have achieved the same unquestioning support as that floater in the toilet of life, Trump... and could, metaphorically, "shoot someone in broad daylight and still be popular" in the same way.

How else could a crude early seventies amp design, a generic, textbook one nicked from a manufacturers application note and identical to 100's of others nicked from the same source for use in PA systems, electric organs etc, be sold largely unchanged in 2020 for £4000 (it's virtually the same as the power amp section of the A&R A60 and the A60 is just as well made and uses just as good parts...) and yet have sycophantic followers who would swim through vomit to defend Naim charging £4000 for a £1000 amplifier (and only £1000 due to the expensive casework and large mains transformer) with a hue and cry of "We like being ripped off! Naim are so wonderful that it's an honour to be ripped off by them! You just don't understand!"

It's like the "MAGA" scum in the USA who love Trump more every time he makes a racist or sexist comment or simply displays his idiocy!

If any one else took a £30 transformer and put it in a £60 case with a pair of £10 capacitors and £5 of other parts and tried to charge £2000 for the resulting power supply they would rightly be laughed out the room and face accusations of being charlatans and rip off merchants whilst comments were made such as "What were they thinking?! Only an idiot would pay that price!"

And yet to an...ahem... certain type of person, all you need do is show that it says "Naim" on the box and it's "Ah well in that case it's fine... what a bargain!"

I wouldn't be surprised if college courses in marketing and advertising feature Naim quite highly! Probably alongside Nike managing to sell trainers for £1000...

Earlier it this thread someone made about the most stupid comment I've ever seen on pfm... but quite telling in some ways... "who cares about the circuitry!?" was the comment... of course an amplifier IS "the circuitry".
Quite telling though in exposing that to the completely non technical audiophile an amplifier is a box and a brand name... Naim understand this and market successfully on it... after all if a box with a brand name on it sells then what better than... 8 boxes with the same brand name on them!?:rolleyes: Ker-ching!$£!
 
Del monaco said:
I’m no longer a Naim owner but Ive never found the cdp’s sharp and edgy. They are often very tightly focused and are especially good with voices I feel.
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I second that emotion Del. I like their Cd players very much. In fact I hope they start to make them again, as I feel their design and implimentation was very clever and good quality .
 
Arkless Electronics said:
Naim seems to have achieved the same unquestioning support as that floater in the toilet of life, Trump... and could, metaphorically, "shoot someone in broad daylight and still be popular" in the same way.

How else could a crude early seventies amp design, a generic, textbook one nicked from a manufacturers application note and identical to 100's of others nicked from the same source for use in PA systems, electric organs etc, be sold largely unchanged in 2020 for £4000 (it's virtually the same as the power amp section of the A&R A60 and the A60 is just as well made and uses just as good parts...) and yet have sycophantic followers who would swim through vomit to defend Naim charging £4000 for a £1000 amplifier (and only £1000 due to the expensive casework and large mains transformer) with a hue and cry of "We like being ripped off! Naim are so wonderful that it's an honour to be ripped off by them! You just don't understand!"

It's like the "MAGA" scum in the USA who love Trump more every time he makes a racist or sexist comment or simply displays his idiocy!

If any one else took a £30 transformer and put it in a £60 case with a pair of £10 capacitors and £5 of other parts and tried to charge £2000 for the resulting power supply they would rightly be laughed out the room and face accusations of being charlatans and rip off merchants whilst comments were made such as "What were they thinking?! Only an idiot would pay that price!"

And yet to an...ahem... certain type of person, all you need do is show that it says "Naim" on the box and it's "Ah well in that case it's fine... what a bargain!"

I wouldn't be surprised if college courses in marketing and advertising feature Naim quite highly! Probably alongside Nike managing to sell trainers for £1000...

Earlier it this thread someone made about the most stupid comment I've ever seen on pfm... but quite telling in some ways... "who cares about the circuitry!?" was the comment... of course an amplifier IS "the circuitry".
Quite telling though in exposing that to the completely non technical audiophile an amplifier is a box and a brand name... Naim understand this and market successfully on it... after all if a box with a brand name on it sells then what better than... 8 boxes with the same brand name on them!?:rolleyes: Ker-ching!$£!
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A couple of points, well, three!

If the crude early seventies design still delivers the goods, why change it? Don't they say: "if it ain't broke don't mend it"? You could level the same charge against a lot of valve amps, except their designs hark back even earlier, but nobody suggests this to be a bad thing.

If you look at the inside of a Supernait 3, or any of the Uniti all in one units, it is immediately apparent that much of the design is recent and was not and could not have been derived from a generic 1970s application note.

Finally, unlike a lot of other equipment, Naim stuff is very reliable and much of it is easily serviced. The latter might not be so true of the later designs, but they still tend to outlast many other competing products. To most of us, this is a big deal. For example, a failed Hypex PSU is only fit for the bin, but we can have a Naim PSU repaired or serviced without a problem.
 
wylton said:
I do wish we didn't have to resort to name calling (condescending prick etc). it's an internet forum (and Tony's living); surely we can hold an opinion and let others hold theirs?
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Yes , thank you, getting personal is unnecessary, I am sure if we were talking to each other in person we would be more considerate.
 
Sort of like I've said somewhere previously :

Each player has its own strengths :

For example, listening to Miles Davis on the trumpet.

Arcam.. fleshy and communicative, not at all harsh

Rotel.. totally doesn't do the above but has big soundstage.

Naim CDX2.2 TXPS... not lush like the Arcam but then, when have I ever heard a lush trumpet. The Naim does micro dynamics and makes the playing sound interesting.

Could be why a lot of non audiophiles tell me they don't like jazz.
 
Curtis said:
I’ve always fancied trying one of their cdps. Can they do soundstage at all?
Also any good as a transport?
Click to expand...

I Once had a CDX2 and found it boogied, but slightly harsh to my ears, on an extended listening session. The Naim forum advised me the way to sort the CDX2 was to add the XPS2 Power supply to round-off that meddlesome treble. At that point I sold it as the power supply was nearly the same cost as the CDX2....Lol.
 
Hiesteem said:
Yes , thank you, getting personal is unnecessary, I am sure if we were talking to each other in person we would be more considerate.
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I agree. Reflects very badly on the poster and invalidates their credibility IMO. People need to try to articulate or argue their point in a better way and then they need to relent if they feel the opposing argument is valid, not resort to personal jibes if they feel threatened or challenged.There are one or two here that make such personal comments.It can be quite aggressive and a little unsettling.It is a forum.
 
Del monaco said:
I agree. Reflects very badly on the poster and invalidates their credibility IMO. People need to try to articulate or argue their point in a better way and then they need to relent if they feel the opposing argument is valid, not resort to personal jibes if they feel threatened or challenged.There are one or two here that make such personal comments.It can be quite aggressive and a little unsettling.It is a forum.
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Oh deary me, my credibility has been declared invalid by someone on the Internet, how will I get through the rest of the day? :rolleyes:
 
Timcat said:
A couple of points, well, three!

If the crude early seventies design still delivers the goods, why change it? Don't they say: "if it ain't broke don't mend it"? You could level the same charge against a lot of valve amps, except their designs hark back even earlier, but nobody suggests this to be a bad thing.

If you look at the inside of a Supernait 3, or any of the Uniti all in one units, it is immediately apparent that much of the design is recent and was not and could not have been derived from a generic 1970s application note.

Finally, unlike a lot of other equipment, Naim stuff is very reliable and much of it is easily serviced. The latter might not be so true of the later designs, but they still tend to outlast many other competing products. To most of us, this is a big deal. For example, a failed Hypex PSU is only fit for the bin, but we can have a Naim PSU repaired or serviced without a problem.
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Why isn't a Quad 306 £4000 then? Same parts quality, same reliability, same serviceability, more expensive to make casework, unique and very clever topology...

Why isn't an A&R A60 worth at least as much as an early Nait? Similar circuitry, equally good sound, just as serviceable, similar parts and construction of PCB etc...

Brand mythology created by clever marketing is why. They made ownership feel like joining an exclusive club reserved for "special people" who "get it" and then have the "right" to sneer at non flat earth audiophiles who are to be pitied for failing to "see the light"... such is the proselytising zeal of their apostles that they hardly need to advertise whilst "true believers" consider themselves almost grateful and honoured to be allowed to pay £2000 for a transformer in a box. It's the state of the art.... in marketing:rolleyes:
 
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