Would you sign up to be tracked?

[Richard Nichola]

Unfortunately my 100% lack of trust in this shower means no.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-giving-ministers-power-to-de-anonymise-users

Well I guess what a government could do is plant some phones at sites of interest and then "gate keep" the upload to the matching server, so you needed a one time QR code that was on a form you only get when you get your COVID diagnosis. You then infect the people you're interested in by smearing the virus on a doorknob say and wait to see if a person rocks up for a diagnosis has been near one of your planted phones and when. It might yield useful intelligence, but probably won't.

 

[tiggers]

There are ways (see end of page one) to do this without impinging on those rights. The rights themselves can also be limited, where necessary, in pursuit of a serious matter of genuine public interest (eg a ‘pressing social need’). So it can be done in a way which is entirely permissible and reasonable. The wider concern is that of mistrust, and suspicion that it won’t be done that way, because ‘interests’.

It won’t matter whether it impinges on anyone's rights or not as people will always be suspicious so it’s a non- starter sadly. You only have to look at the responses here. Ridiculous really considering what we’re facing but that’s what lying governments do to people I guess.

I think people are just going to have to accept the alternative .... living with this until a vaccine is freely available. As long as they leave schools, restaurants and pubs shut it should be manageable as long as people accept plenty of deaths as the norm from now on.

 

[clivem2]

The reality is that all this stuff can be done already and is when the need arises. Asking our permission would just be window dressing to make it seem like we’d approved.

 

[Seeker_UK]

The reality is that all this stuff can be done already and is when the need arises. Asking our permission would just be window dressing to make it seem like we’d approved.

The tech is there for sure, but without the means to actually do something with the data it's a waste of zeros and ones.

 

[clivem2]

The tech is there for sure, but without the means to actually do something with the data it's a waste of zeros and ones.

You’d get a call to say you were required to self-isolate. If you (or rather your phone) didn’t comply you would then receive a visit. Easy to do...but the self-managing app would be far more preferable and people would feel they’ve bought in. Those thinking their privacy would be violated by using the app should think about the alternative I’ve described. We’ve got to get out of this somehow.

Once a few infected people are identified the tech will know who’s been near them. It wouldn’t be perfect without cooperation but it would work over time, a decent picture could be built.

 

[davidsrsb]

The reality is that all this stuff can be done already and is when the need arises. Asking our permission would just be window dressing to make it seem like we’d approved.

Tracking phones by tower is under the jurisdiction of the national government, so a controllable security issue.
Feeding back to a server in the USA is a no for countries potentially subjected to drone strikes

 

[Seeker_UK]

You’d get a call to say you were required to self-isolate. If you (or rather your phone) didn’t comply you would then receive a visit. Easy to do...but the self-managing app would be far more preferable and people would feel they’ve bought in.

1) That requires resource we don't have. Where would you pull resource from: the police, NHS, armed forces?
2) How do you enforce compliance to carry the phone? (See above re: resources). In S Korea, their approach has been to GPS tag those with the illness. Is that OK; to treat ill people the same way as you treat criminals?

Those thinking their privacy would be violated by using the app should think about the alternative I’ve described. We’ve got to get out of this somehow.

And there's the rub. There is no easy answer. National well-being vs privacy and thousands dead? I really don't know.

 

[clivem2]

Tracking phones by tower is under the jurisdiction of the national government, so a controllable security issue.
Feeding back to a server in the USA is a no for countries potentially subjected to drone strikes

I’m not suggesting we take out infected people by drone . There’s no need for data to go to the US for as you say it’s all controlled in the national cell networks. We don’t need Apple or Google to track people, which I think is what you’re saying.

 

[hifinutt]

i use a 2 g nokia phone , don`t think it even has the internet let alone apps !!

 

[clivem2]

1) That requires resource we don't have. Where would you pull resource from: the police, NHS, armed forces?
2) How do you enforce compliance to carry the phone? (See above re: resources). In S Korea, their approach has been to GPS tag those with the illness. Is that OK; to treat ill people the same way as you treat criminals?



And there's the rub. There is no easy answer. National well-being vs privacy and thousands dead? I really don't know.

It’s simple to automate calls. The resource issue come in when people need to receive a visit. The bigger point here is that we live in a relatively free democracy but democracies have limits. When extreme times occur our freedoms cannot be guaranteed. If individual selfish actions put thousands at risk then uncomfortable decisions might be made - maybe those drone strikes! (I’m joking, I hope..) I’m not saying it’ll come to the state interfering so strongly but we shouldn’t assume the right of the individual trumps everything else.

 

[davidsrsb]

I’m not suggesting we take out infected people by drone . There’s no need for data to go to the US for as you say it’s all controlled in the national cell networks. We don’t need Apple or Google to track people, which I think is what you’re saying.

But you can see how a "you must have this to go out" decree can lead to very tempting metadata for the USA to acquire for reasons nothing to do with the virus. Can you imaging how the press would handle this if the tracking app came from China

 

[clivem2]

i use a 2 g nokia phone , don`t think it even has the internet let alone apps !!

Still trackable...though many GSM services are switched off now.

 

[herb]

I don't have a mobile phone, Will I get one free from the NHS ?

 

[clivem2]

But you can see how a "you must have this to go out" decree can lead to very tempting metadata for the USA to acquire for reasons nothing to do with the virus. Can you imaging how the press would handle this if the tracking app came from China

Agreed and probably even more worrying in your part of the world. Whether Huawei get into the U.K. 5G network is dubious now.

 

[clivem2]

I don't have a mobile phone, Will I get one free from the NHS ?

You’re living off-grid! Incognito.

 

[hifinutt]

I don't have a mobile phone, Will I get one free from the NHS ?

yes there are still many with no phones , my extremely capable senior friend has not got one and never wants one either

 

[Andrew C!]

It would seem form the responses in here that the possibility of employing contact tracing and quarantine to help ease the lockdown or try and prevent another one is less important than people's human rights, civil liberties or whatever. Hmmmmmm!

Some folk on here need tracking anyway (Joking).

In the U.K. the authorities required for a location search for a persons mobile are very stringent, and justifiably so. Don’t even get to the stage of discussing accessing the phones contents. Location tracing for me was around concern for a persons safety(or if had been reported missing and were viewed as high risk). Surveillance requests as being suspected of being involved in offences was not my area of expertise.

 

[glancaster]

The Apple/Google contact tracing API is something each user can control. You decide whether to switch it on and which apps will be permitted to use it. If you turn off Bluetooth it can’t work either. No need for burner phones, phone destruction, tin foil hats, etc.

 

[stevec67]

Yebbut if your Face ID does not match your usual phone IMEI tptb are immediately notified, your bank details, health records, previous movements and contacts are downloaded for analysis, and a complete report is red marked for the police and mi5. The scary thing is they could do this.

For 65 million of us? It's the usual thing, if they think I might bomb the Manchester Arena they would, but for volume criminal thieving scum? No chance.

 

[Bob McC]

For 65 million of us? It's the usual thing, if they think I might bomb the Manchester Arena they would, but for volume criminal thieving scum? No chance.

That plan worked didn’t it?