Seanm
pfm Member
There’s never been a better time for them to unveil their militantly moderate plan, has there? And yet...
Next Labour Leader II
- Thread starter Sue Pertwee-Tyr
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Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
You mean there are Labour members who want to go back to the dark days of running the country? The b*stards. Christ, that would run the risk of having to make compromises to your politics.
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
Human nature being what it is, if there is an ineffective leader people will try and remove them.
Seanm
pfm Member
Blairism wasn’t about compromise.
Seanm
pfm Member
Human nature now is it. The left make very particular, very obvious mistakes. The right...well, just human nature. No one to blame, certainly no lessons to be learned.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Opposition to Corbyn is not the same as actively campigning against Corbyn, which is campaigning against Labour. As ks says, Labout was the only party that could realistically oust the tories. Years of undermining of Corbyn helped ensure a Conservative win at the last GE. I've never quite understood the arrogance of hard remainers turning against Labour because the party did not fall into line with their demand Labour take up a remain positiion.
You're still not learning anything. Do you think Labour will suddenly be strong enough to win the next GE because Corbyn will not be leader?
If Corbyn was so ineffective those people undermining Labour would have succeeded in removing him, they failed. That is unless you believe undermining the party and helping the tories win the GE leading to his resignation was their grand plan to oust the ineffective leader of the party?
You obviously mean the extreme right trashing things, they are running the country. There are no extreme left nutjobs trashing the country, or even in the opposition party.
If these "militant moderates" are hard-remainers, they will not do anything beyond childish name-calling.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Indeed, but campaigning so hard to undermine a leader, then complaining when that leader is undermined, smacks of a tactic at odds with a strategy
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Stating an equivalence between opposition to Blair, and the systematic, organised, in certain instances undemocratic campaign against Corbyn is ahistorical
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Not my point.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
I've never quite understood the arrogance of Labour leavers turning against Labour because the party was a majority Remain membership and support.
Please say this is irony. We have "sensibles", "militant moderates" and the equally ludicrous "hard remainers" but we are supposed to believe the name calling is nothing to do with the left.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
The militant moderates haven’t engaged in name calling? They haven’t called leave voters thick and racist? They haven’t been describing as ‘hard left anyone who supports policies that in most other countries would be considered moderate, haven’t been calling labour membership Trotskyist?
FFS
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Yes FFS.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
"Hard-Remainer" is not name-calling in the manner of "knuckle-dragger", "racist", "thicko", "little-Englander", Steve. It is a way of identifying the type of person who voted remain but is/was prepared to accept the outcome of a democratic referendum versus those who have spent 3.5 years campaigning to have the result overturned, undermining the main opposition in the process. These 2 types of person are entirely different and imo it's the right thing to make that differentiation.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
This is the fundamental point, Labour lost because it was divided. If those divisions continue, Labour will continue to lose. And more important, Johnson and Cummings will continue to flourish unhampered by an effective opposition
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
What’s interesting is that while the knuckle-dragger", "racist", "thicko", "little-Englander" name calling has been going on for several years, the militant moderates are so indignant to see an insult so quickly
Hang on a mo these militant moderates were only invented a few posts ago. Give them a chance to notice and pop into existence, make contact with each other, pull together what is important, attract support from the general population, support from within the political system, etc... This is going to take at least a few more pages.
Given labour has a couple of hundred MPs we first need to sort out whether it is going to remain a hard left controlled party or revert to a moderate left party and hence how much of a part it would play in this militant moderate movement.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
There is no moral high ground here Brian, the name calling has been all round. There is no reason to have to accept a referendum that you disagree with - or we would never have had another. If you can't oppose it through the main opposition, who are majority Remain supporters then how do you oppose anything? We are not a plebiscite democracy, at least we weren't last time I looked. There is no reason to stop opposing anything, especially something as damaging as Brexit, you do it by supporting a party that shares your aims. If Labour is not prepared to oppose on such key matters it might as well give up.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Labour lost because Corbyn was crap and unpopular with the electorate.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Can you point me to where I have used those terms? It is allowed to call out racism btw of which there has been plenty of freshly emboldened, post Brexit.
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