advertisement


Next Labour Leader II

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nandy is my preference. I think she's electable. The more I hear from her, the more I think that. It usually works the other way round!
 
Phillips is a classic case of style over substance.

And I wouldn't mind, but the style is almost as bad as the substance.

She had a shocker of a hustings and I'm not surprised she stood down. She probably listened to her heart. Or else she listened to what real people who are talking on the doorstep are really talking about*.

* In case you are confused, that is the sort of nonsense Phillips comes out with.
 
Lisa Nandy certainly did well in the C4 news focus group. Rebecca Long-Bailey received no votes!
 
Nigel said:
Lisa Nandy certainly did well in the C4 news focus group. Rebecca Long-Bailey received no votes!
Click to expand...

Nandy won the most votes along with Starmer, I think. This was from former Labour supporters who'd turned Tory.

One woman said she'd voted for Johnson because he has flyway hair and a big personality. Another put down RLB for being in the back pocket of Corbyn.

A couple of the Tory voters were black, I recall. I really don't understand how a black person can vote for a racist like Johnson. There are some stupid people in England.

Jack
 
And you throw around insults like confetti at a wedding. Politics can be complicated, people are complicated and you know nothing about them or their motives other than they must be stupid because they voted Tory and they are black.
 
Roger Adams said:
The "far left" has become a pejorative term in contrast to our having an extreme right wing government.

Such is the power of the media.
Click to expand...

Not so in my opinion. There was a Question Time edition not long before the election date from a northern city. There were many in the audience who identified as being traditional Labour but had the balls to say that the ridiculous spending plans of Corbyn would lead to another crash and inevitable austerity. I’m afraid even genuine Socialists are fed up with reckless far left rhetoric. It wasn’t that the right wing media got to them. They had the common sense to know when they were being taken into a recklessly run economy.... with icing topping of a clueless approach to Brexit which the voters didn’t want.

Many Labour voters are seeing some sense and turned away. That said, I don’t have much faith in their voting system. Not that many years ago they managed to elect the wrong Miliband and it was downhill from there.
 
We have austerity. We have offshore accounts and leading politicians paying no taxes whatsoever.I can only assume the majority were Sun readers.

For me, there are some basic facts. We have to all pay more tax and we also need to crack down on the tax evasion that is so openly available to those with sufficient funds and profitable businesses.

That of course assumes that we still would like to continue to receive the state support that we do at the moment such as a state run, national health service and a state pension that allows people to live with a little dignity having worked all of their lives.

I don't think that is "extreme left wing" vision for the nation. It is how the UK was run during, what some might consider to be the nation's golden era from the mid fifties to the mid seventies.

I believe the low tax economy that we have had since then has resulted in continued increases in social inequality, social divides and a lack of a sense of community. I find that harmful to the quality of life of 95% of the population. That suggests that the majority of the the past 45 years have seen a fairly extreme form of capitalism that is harmful to most.

The reversal of that damage will take large amounts of tax reform and public spending. There is little getting around that. Right now, the income from your NI payment covers either the cost of the state pension OR the required spending on the NHS - not both. Which would you prefer?

The alternative is to radically reform tax take to something that is more inline with the majority of our neighbours. Wealth inequality in the UK is at one of the highest levels of any nation in Europe - indeed I believe it is the highest of any EU28 nation (I may be wrong). That is what Thatcherite low tax economics buy you. A super wealthy 5% and increasingly poor public services and finances.

Do I sound like an extreme left wing Corbynite or like a human being who wants a good quality of life for 95% of the population?
 
I think all the evidence is pointing to the fact that Labour will find it very difficult to win the next election if they decide to appoint Rebecca Long-Bailey as leader.
 
thebigfredc said:
And you throw around insults like confetti at a wedding. Politics can be complicated, people are complicated and you know nothing about them or their motives other than they must be stupid because they voted Tory and they are black.
Click to expand...
Alright then...self deluding. But that encompasses stupid, doesn't it?
 
Oh I don't know, this sounds about right in the "centrist/sensibles = enemy" kind of world.

"Too obsessed with trying to get Labour back into power rather than preserving its ideological purity. The very idea that Labour might have to change! Didn’t she know it was the voters who needed to change? How could she have been so stupid as to fail to understand that the best way to help the poorest members of society was to remain in permanent opposition?"

The better option at this time remains Starmer.
 
ff1d1l said:
Alright then...self deluding. But that encompasses stupid, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Perhaps they were self employed or ran a business - the Tories have historically championed lower corporation tax rates so that may have been their motive.

Perhaps they or someone close to them had been traumatised by a crime and the perpetrator had been given only a light sentence and it could be argued that the Conservatives at least talk tough on crime.

I am only guessing of course but at least that is better than Jack's determining the way people should vote by skin colour approach and way better than labelling them as stupid from a 10 second cameo on the telly.
 
Roger Adams said:
We have austerity. We have offshore accounts and leading politicians paying no taxes whatsoever.I can only assume the majority were Sun readers.

For me, there are some basic facts. We have to all pay more tax and we also need to crack down on the tax evasion that is so openly available to those with sufficient funds and profitable businesses.

That of course assumes that we still would like to continue to receive the state support that we do at the moment such as a state run, national health service and a state pension that allows people to live with a little dignity having worked all of their lives.

I don't think that is "extreme left wing" vision for the nation. It is how the UK was run during, what some might consider to be the nation's golden era from the mid fifties to the mid seventies.

I believe the low tax economy that we have had since then has resulted in continued increases in social inequality, social divides and a lack of a sense of community. I find that harmful to the quality of life of 95% of the population. That suggests that the majority of the the past 45 years have seen a fairly extreme form of capitalism that is harmful to most.

The reversal of that damage will take large amounts of tax reform and public spending. There is little getting around that. Right now, the income from your NI payment covers either the cost of the state pension OR the required spending on the NHS - not both. Which would you prefer?

The alternative is to radically reform tax take to something that is more inline with the majority of our neighbours. Wealth inequality in the UK is at one of the highest levels of any nation in Europe - indeed I believe it is the highest of any EU28 nation (I may be wrong). That is what Thatcherite low tax economics buy you. A super wealthy 5% and increasingly poor public services and finances.

Do I sound like an extreme left wing Corbynite or like a human being who wants a good quality of life for 95% of the population?
Click to expand...
All fine but the Labour Party threw in free broadband, nationalisation program (some of which I thought were fine) & didn't fully cost the proposals as they there in the Waspi handout. This was all paid for by taxing those over £80k an extra 5%.

The term 'far left' is a relatively new one on me, as is 'centrist', both of which are pejorative.

This is all rather circular as the electorate have a myriad of reasons for voting the way they do, media & racism don't really cover it.
 
The electorate aren't daft and they probably smelt a whiff of Corbyn's true political position with his un-costed, wholesale demolition and subsequent acquisition of the UK's private schools.
 
thebigfredc said:
The electorate aren't daft and they probably smelt a whiff of Corbyn's true political position with his un-costed, wholesale demolition and subsequent acquisition of the UK's private schools.
Click to expand...

As far as I know it was costed - with the exception of the pension policy added at the end, and there were no plans to _acquire_ public schools only to remove their charitable status - something that seems sensible to me.
 
Woodface said:
All fine but the Labour Party threw in free broadband, nationalisation program (some of which I thought were fine) & didn't fully cost the proposals as they there in the Waspi handout. This was all paid for by taxing those over £80k an extra 5%.
Click to expand...

I was Brexit wot done it ;) And, very clearly, those remainers who tried to tie Corbyn's hands to a second referendum - even the Guardian has come around to this analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/21/crushed-by-brexit-how-labour-lost-the-election
 
thebigfredc said:
The electorate aren't daft and they probably smelt a whiff of Corbyn's true political position with his un-costed, wholesale demolition and subsequent acquisition of the UK's private schools.
Click to expand...
Private schools were not part of any conversation I’ve had on the doorstep or in the pub
 
When a good percentage of the British Public genuinely analysed the proposals, they could see that it was a genuine attempt (from a genuine man) to redress the inequality and greed that has become all pervasive amongst the older generations. It was only my age group (the over 50's,) that voted for a Conservative working majority - much like the referendum on membership of the EU where the same age group voted to leave. I find it sad that the very people who need to face the future have been denied it by those looking back and not forward.
 
gavreid said:
I was Brexit wot done it ;) And, very clearly, those remainers who tried to tie Corbyn's hands to a second referendum - even the Guardian has come around to this analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/21/crushed-by-brexit-how-labour-lost-the-election
Click to expand...
Brutal stuff isn’t it, and free of the usual Guardian pissiness. I’d be interested to see what people here make of it: it aligns with a lot of the centrist take on amateurism and Corbyn’s personal shortcomings, but puts Andrew Fisher and remainers in the frame rather than the bogeyman Milne. His major failing on this telling seems to have been to have allowed himself to get frozen out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top