Michael J
pfm Member
"Wales" voted to leave the EU, 52.5%, broadly in keeping with the only result that actually counts - the whole UK. It was not a regional vote. Don't assume anything, it might take you too long.
Should Scotland be an independent country?
- Thread starter Deej
- Start date
ff1d1l
pfm Member
By regional you mean national?
Going well in Scotland, yes?
The election figures for Wales I posted upthread...a substantial majority for remain or parties supprting a second referendum.
Then there's that inconvenient study which shows english retiree voters swung it in the 2016 referendum over the indigenous populace.
Plenty to chew on there.
tones
Tones deaf
Although Eire (technically Éire) is Irish for Ireland, nobody in Ireland calls the country by that name. The country is called Ireland. The name was officially changed to the Republic of Ireland after the Second World War (previously the Irish Free State) and the British finally accepted the preferred name of simply Ireland in the wake of the Good Friday Agreement when Ireland dropped its claim to Northern Ireland.
Michael J
pfm Member
You are Humpty Dumpty and I claim my £5.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Done it and I have some ideas. I may make a post later in the Audio section to ask advice from the many decent members of this forum.
Anything on my earlier question quoted above?
Anything on making a post on the topic of the thread?
"Indigenous populace"...
So what do you suggest now those English settlers are there?
ff1d1l
pfm Member
...and I counterclaim you as the pre breakfast Red Queen...
Nice ad hom btw.
Joe
pfm Member
There certainly is..... like the huge inherently racist turd in that sentence.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
It's a fair question, but why does an economy have to have a 'center'?
Yes the oil reserves are still substantial and will certainly be profitable for many years ahead. I imagine that during this time, an independent and european Scotland will be attracting all sorts of industries and services that appreciate the beneficial rates, the local resources, a hard working population and the benefit of EU membership. Things will shift, settle and re shift slowly over 20 or 30 years I'd guess. I really don't see the power question at all. If there is one place in Europe that is already running fast forward toward being sustainable it's Scotland, with wind farms growing faster that geese fed on orkney grass, and an already in place hydro power system so unused that it's only switched on occasionally. Plenty of space here for further developments in any tech I'd have guessed, and plenty of companies worldwide wanting to help...China for example...quite good at Nuclear and Hydro themselves.
And then 'asking the SNP'. The difference here is that we trust our politicians to be working for US. I'm not naive but do think that all the research required is going on. Do we have every answer to satisfy the odd internet shouter? No. Tough. You'll need to wait until they work it out. When they do they MAY be putting it to us as a question, and some of those questions will be ones that we don't like the answer to. That's life!
Now let's not stretch the bounds of credibility too far.
As for the topic why do you not want the UK to break up, surely as an Englander you have to accept that England voted to leave the EU and Scotland didn't. As two distinct nations that could well give them cause to think maybe the UK is no longer for them and hence why they might well have a second independence referendum. If it happens and they vote to leave I (and yes I'm English .. sadly) wish them all the very best and hope they make a good go of it. You, on the other hand, would rather see them forced to remain in the UK with no referendum. Surely giving them a referendum and letting them decide what is best for them rather than another country (effectively) dictating to them how things are going to be (after a very long history of exactly that) is a better outcome. You seemed very keen a little while back to argue about the 'will of the people' and all that rubbish yet I guess it only applies selectively.... maybe you should never have voted to leave the EU if you didn't want the mess that comes next..oh and save that 'I'm not telling you which way I voted' tripe ... you voted to leave.. it's so glaringly obvious it's farcical that you keep denying it!
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Low oil prices are for the best. Oil has proved to be a curse, around the world it gives little employment, encourages a lazy and corrupt government and overvalues currencies so that other industries become hard to set up.
The UK is a mild example, oil money allowing Thatcher to be able to afford to kill off manufacturing industry to spite the unions.
The UK is a mild example, oil money allowing Thatcher to be able to afford to kill off manufacturing industry to spite the unions.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Coming from West Wales I can confirm that about 50% of the population are retirees from both England and around Cardiff."Indigenous populace"...
So what do you suggest now those English settlers are there?
They have moved there to free up property capital (no work so cheap houses), to be near the sea and also the area is 99% white.
They have completely overwhelmed the local NHS
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Tough for who?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Thanks for clarifying the issue. I'll have a go at clearing things up with you.
You said, " You, on the other hand, would rather see them forced to remain in the UK with no referendum. "
No. That's not the case.
Should Scotland be an independent country?
What I've said is, I don't believe the Tories will agree to a referendum and I've asked the nationalists what Sturgeon can do about that.
You said, "You seemed very keen a little while back to argue about the 'will of the people"
No, I did not. I don't believe I've ever mentioned the term, "the will of the people", I certainly don't think of it in that way. Yes, the referendum was 52/48 but I've actually argued that the 48% should be taken into consideration in however it pans out.
You said, "maybe you should never have voted to leave the EU if you didn't want the mess that comes next..oh and save that 'I'm not telling you which way I voted' tripe ... you voted to leave.. it's so glaringly obvious it's farcical that you keep denying it!"
Well, the fact is, you don't know how I voted in the referendum. I have my thoughts both positive and negative on EU membership and I have my reasons for voting how I did. This
is private and is not the business of people reading pfm. However, I will tell you I have not helped enable a Tory govt, nor did I vote for the Brexit party in the GE.
You said, "As for the topic why do you not want the UK to break up,"
I don't have to make a case for not breaking up the UK. Those wishing to do so need to make the case and justify to voters in a referendum why Scotland should be poorer, if only for some temporary period of time. They have so far failed badly to do so.
If there is a referendum and Scots vote to leave then I wish them well. I don't want Scotland to fail and be poorer because as I keep saying, I like Scotland, I simply think it will be damaged badly by leaving the UK. I'm quite happy for you to take the opposing view without ranting and raving at you about it.
What is contentious in any of that?
Hasn't West Wales always been at least 99% white?
Rockmeister
pfm Member
for all those who expect the world to fall at their feet, laying out a plan which answers their every concern at the drop of the tiniest of tiny hats.
Norwegians seem quite happy about it. But then they are smarter than everyone else as well as being Vikings.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
So not tough on the poor sods who have to endure 10+ years of hyper-austerity because a Scottish currency which was not properly funded has collapsed and import prices have gone through the roof. Ensuring a proper currency is in place is not just a slight concern for God's sake.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
Nah. They’ll be fine.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Yeah, wing and a prayer, never known to have failed.