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Election night 2019 / aftermath

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Mike Reed said:
Well, wisdom would be a strong contender as well here, but if you've lived and worked for 40/50 years and haven't anything to show for that, then something's gone wrong. Assets are a natural end product of a working life. Who wouldn't want to protect these?
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I think there's a tension between 'wisdom' and 'looking after my own' here, though. As one approaches old age, infirmity becomes a realistic prospect. It is therefore in one's own self-interest for there to be adequate provision to take care of the infirm, preferably at collective expense rather than at one's own cost. So it would follow that older people should recognise the societal value in pooling resources and collective endeavour, for the wider good of society, because the 'society' specifically includes them.

Yet they cleave to ideas of low taxation which lead to (Tory) policies of paying for care through the sale of property. It's somewhat self-defeating, isn't it? So I'm not sure 'wisdom' is the most apt term in the context.
 
MikeMA said:
Exactly this.

I'd argue that the student generation of the late 60s - my student generation! - was far more radical and prepared to demonstrate and chuck stuff about than the current bunch, who seem positively tame. Loads of them must be voting Tory by now, though not me!
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Good for you for staying true!

I think it's been harder for the young with main parties becoming a bit vanilla and law changes and surveillance making protest difficult, but there are signs of change all over the world including here. Look at extinction rebellion! (Conceived of in this country)
 
Weekender said:
The Labour seats that turned blue are socially conservative and economically left. This is a new factor brought out by Brexit. Boris may struggle to hold into them as they will be expecting spends.
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These are the people Labour has to target in the next election. Their economic situation will probably have deteriorated by then as the impact of Brexit will be apparent. But there is a lot of work to be done to win back trust, avoid an internal civil war and hope Johnson doesn't try to reduce the North/South disparity.
 
It’s the poor who proportionately fall sick and Brexit took their vote. Well pensioned and propertied boomers might vote Labour when actually sick; otherwise, they’re keeping what they’ve got, thanks.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
You make an interesting point.

If, as is often claimed, a Corbyn-led, 'far left' (their term) government would have been a disaster for the UK, then it does seem likely that this country's 'enemies', chief amongst them the Russians or perhaps the Chinese, would have deployed their considerable resources into subtly manipulating the situation so as to bring it about, and thus weaken the UK.

I'm pretty sure if that had been the evidence in the, now buried, report into Russian interference, then Boris would have been keen to ensure every editor had a copy on their desk well ahead of the election.

He didn't, which does imply the reverse might be the case. From which it follows that the Russians prefer a Tory, right-wing government. That might be because, ideologically, they stand to benefit more from a like-minded, kleptocratic administration, or it might be that Putin sees the best way to bring the UK to its knees is to install an incompetent government, stocked with self-serving idiots. So, either a kleptocracy, or an idiocracy, but either way, not in our nation's best interests.
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Above all the Russians want to see brexit done, it weakens us and it weakens Europe. Labour and libdem offered a way out.
 
Yes. Let's hope Boris doesn't spend too much of our taxes on Sedgefield and Workington et al.
Otherwise Labour will be even more doomed.
 
Alex S said:
It’s the poor who proportionately fall sick and Brexit took their vote. Well pensioned and propertied boomers might vote Labour when actually sick; otherwise, they’re keeping what they’ve got, thanks.
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Indeed. Hence my querying whether 'wisdom' and 'age' align as well as has been suggested.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I don't know on what basis you make the assertion I have made bold, in the above. Johnson is, unlike Corbyn, a conman in the literal sense of the term, and he doesn't exactly have an iron grip on the nutters in his party (the ERG), yet he has just been re-elected.
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Let's be honest, Johnson doesn't even have a grip on what he has 'negotiated' as a Brexit deal... I guess he's about to find out!

I do have to laugh at our new resident right winger asserting that Labour leaders have been conmen when Johnson has just swept to power, a man so bereft of morals he doesn't even know how many children he has!
 
sean99 said:
I think it’s very simple. Brexit is the most divisive issue of our lives and was born out of a far right project to remove England from EU worker, environmental and most of all financial regulations. Most Labour supporters voted against it. Many were fooled or persuaded to vote for it based on xenophobic and nationalist rhetoric and grossly unrealistic promises (aka lies).

Labour was crying out for a leader who would call out Brexit for what it is, but Corbyn has spent three years painfully avoiding taking a position for fear of alienating anyone. Well it turns out that voters like a leader who takes a position and sells them on it.
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Exactly.

Jack
 
Although In my life I have enjoyed full employment, worked in a capital driven role spending multi millions of pounds to make vast profits for others, I have never ever voted for my personal benefit. My vote is based upon what in my opinion is best for the country, treatment of fellow human beings and common decency to others.

I can understand people being anti Jeremy Corbyn and voting against him and his policies but what is beyond my comprehension is how anyone can vote for such a blatant liar as Johnson.

Perhaps some of the inequalities that obviously exist in the current political system which is quite black and white, would be improved by making our voting less stark ......sadly I and many others will never see a PR system introduced.

Most of my life time has been under Conservative governments and increasingly it seems that very few MPs have educational or social backgrounds to understand the needs of the majority of people.

I know get over it!...a new set of children will arrive at Westminster next week.
 
tiggers said:
I do have to laugh at our new resident right winger asserting that Labour leaders have been conmen when Johnson has just swept to power, a man so bereft of morals he doesn't even know how many children he has!
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You must do your research a little better.
I’ve been on this site 5 years longer than you and have posted 4 times more rubbish than you.
For my next pronouncement I will tell you what the Labour MPs need to do next.
At least 50 of the non nutters, led by someone like Kinnock, need to break away and form a new party.
Having made initial enquiries before leaving the LP, they need to attract all those Labour and Tory ex MPs who resigned or were chucked out, including the ones that went to the LDs.
Then they may have a chance in 5 or 10 years time.
The present LP is terminally ill. It needs to continue dying with all the left wing nutters in there.
 
ff1d1l said:
I've pointed out Blair's assessment of the situation has been on the button for at least the last couple of years. There are people on here who need to learn to disregard baggage and recognise truth.
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I've said a few times that I am a Blair supporter, I have very fond memories of finally kicking the Tories out after 16/17 years.
 
doctorf said:
You must do your research a little better.
I’ve been on this site 5 years longer than you and have posted 4 times more rubbish than you.
For my next pronouncement I will tell you what the Labour MPs need to do next.
At least 50 of the non nutters, led by someone like Kinnock, need to break away and form a new party.
Having made initial enquiries before leaving the LP, they need to attract all those Labour and Tory ex MPs who resigned or were chucked out, including the ones that went to the LDs.
Then they may have a chance in 5 or 10 years time.
The present LP is terminally ill. It needs to continue dying with all the left wing nutters in there.
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Thanks, but as I said before you're not exactly best placed to be telling people how to rebuild the Labour Party. Perhaps instead on pronouncements you should do a little bit of self reflection and see if you can come across a little less pompous in the future. As for being new I was referring to your new found voice in light of your party's victory although I confess that you don't interest me enough to look up the pfm star status that you obviously have ;)
 
doctorf said:
And the reaction of Corbyn is pathetic.
He should go today, rather than stay to work out how to continue the failed Marxist dogma.
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Nonsense as per...

This so called democracy is the fraud, as was the EU Referendum.

As for page 48 of the tory manifesto, I do hope Gena Miller is doing legal research to highlight and prevent this skullduggery.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ht-back-recrimination-blame#comment-136545566

PS: Tony L is spot on re brexit party arron banks involvement in anything is corrupt, he is a pass master.

Rockmeister said:
from Brunel Uni research, regarding the votes from the youngest age group...

With about 627 seats declared by 6am, turnout was about 67%; almost two-points lower than in 2017. This is not a dramatic change, but it does suggest that a fair few 2017 voters have stayed at home, not least because an updated electoral register was released in early December, meaning that it is more accurate (i.e.,there are fewer people on it who shouldn’t be, such as those who have passed away or moved to another constituency). This fact alone means that turnout would have risen at least a little bit even if the exact same number of people voted yesterday as in 2017.The fact that turnout has fallen by almost two-points, therefore, suggests that there are a sizeable number of 2017 voters who stayed at home yesterday.

When it comes to younger voters, the data suggests that – as is true for every election – youth turnout lagged well behind that of their elders. If we look at the 20 constituencies with the highest proportion of 18-35 year olds, the average turnout yesterday was 63%; the turnout for the 20 constituencies with the fewest 18-35 year olds was 72%. The decline in turnout since 2017 was also slightly greater – at 1.5 points lower – in those constituencies with more young adults than those with the fewest – where it was 0.8 points lower. It is far too early to conclude that youth turnout fell substantially in this election, however, and even if it had it is unlikely to have played much of a role in Labour’s poor result: Labour held onto every one of the constituencies with the highest number of 18-35 year olds that it won in 2017.What is clear is that, once again, claims of a youthquake – a sharp rise in turnout among young voters that would benefit the Labour party – have proven well short of the mark. At no point in the campaign have the opinion polls suggested that a youth turnout surge would materialise, but there was a great deal of excitement surrounding the surge in voter registrations among the under-35s – 2.8 million between October and December of this year, more than half a million more than in the same period before the 2017 election – which fuelled claims that a youthquake was on the horizon.

It is certainly true that new additions to the electoral register were more likely to be in constituencies with more young adults. In those 20 constituencies with the most under-35 year olds and for which we have data on new registrations, the electoral register grew by an average of 5.9% since 2017, compared with 1.2% in those constituencies with the fewest 18-35 year olds. As was repeatedly pointed out before the election, however, an increase in electoral registrations among young adults does not mean that there will be a subsequent increase in youth turnout, and as the figures above show, this turned out to be the case. This is illustrated by the case of Sheffield Central, for example, where the electoral register grew by almost 16% between 2017 and 2019, whereas turnout between those two elections feel by 5%.

Are young people still Corbyn fans?

Despite the slight fall in turnout, Labour do appear to still dominate the youth vote in England and Wales. The party won all but three of the 20 constituencies with the most 18-35 year olds, with the three in Scotland going to the SNP. Labour’s vote did fall by an average of 4.5-points, however, with the party only increasing its vote in three constituencies (Bethnal Green and Bow, Bermondsey and Old Southwark and Portsmouth South). While there has been a national shift of something like 10-points from Labour to the Conservatives across the country, however, in the 20 youngest constituencies the Conservative vote has barely changed; while there are some exceptions (such as Coventry South, where they won 42% of the vote and gained about 4.4%), their vote fell by an average of 1-point in the youngest constituencies. Labour’s small loss of support in these parts of the country looks to have benefitted the Greens (whose support grew by an average of 2.1% in those of these constituencies in which they stood) and the Liberal Democrats (whose vote grew by 2.4%), though by nowhere near enough to threaten Labour’s hold on those seats.

Overall, Labour’s terrible result yesterday has little to do with young voters. It has been driven by the party’s failure to hold onto the support of constituencies with more older voters, particularly in Northern England and the Midlands, where the Conservatives’ message of ‘Get Brexit Done’ looks to have resonated quite strongly.
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I did around 120 hours of canvassing in London, Bedford and Milton Keynes. I didn’t expect this result but here’s how I can make sense of it from what I encountered on the doorstep. 1/

https://mobile.twitter.com/LukePagarani/status/1205487970897342464

Read this and weep!
 
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