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Can you tell the difference between 96/24 and 44/16 and mp3?

Julf said:
Isn't that a bit like "how would I feel if I found out Santa Claus isn't for real?"? :)
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More like Dean Martin's point that he pitied people who didn't drink because, when they get up in the morning, that's as good as they are going to feel all day.
 
Can you tell the difference between 96/24 and 44/16 and mp3?

Yes, they are different colours (Fisher Price DAC user).
 
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adamdea said:
The interesting question IMHO is to ask- how would i feel if there is no was of perceptibly improving on a 16/44 stereo file? why would i feel that?
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For people (like me) who own mostly red book stuff, I suggest the feeling would be relief, for the obvious reason.
 
Julf said:
Isn't that a bit like "how would I feel if I found out Santa Claus isn't for real?"? :)
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Unlike Santa, the improved accuracy of hi-res agrees with theory and it's measurable, and the question is just about perceivability.

As far as I know, there's no hard evidence it's perceivable, but it isn't inconceivable.
 
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Good Evening All,

I've heard back from Mark Waldrup and am currently downloading the test files. If only I was in town and had access to 70Mb internet access...........

Regards

Richard
 
Richard Lines said:
Good Evening All,

I've heard back from Mark Waldrup and am currently downloading the test files. If only I was in town and had access to 70Mb internet access...........

Regards

Richard
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I found it difficult to make a call on some files, whilst others I seemed to have a clear favourite pretty quickly.

I've no great confidence however that my clear favourite will actually turn out to be the higher res versions!

It's well worth partaking though as Mark comes from a company that makes hi res recordings and was surprised with an earlier (smaller) test that showed few people could accurately tell the difference. Mark is a scientist and even though he might not 't like what the results are telling him, the analysis will be rigorous.

I find it hard to fathom how many are willing to wax lyrically on the matter but decline to partake in the experiment.

.sjb
 
darrenyeats said:
Unlike Santa, the improved accuracy of hi-res agrees with theory and it's measurable, and the question is just about perceivability.

As far as I know, there's no hard evidence it's perceivable, but it isn't inconceivable.
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The "improved accuracy" depends on your definition of accuracy. The greater potential signal-to-noise ratio is measurable and verifiable, but useless as long as both source materials and listening rooms have a significantly higher noise floor. A higher sample rate gives ability to reproduce ultrasonic frequencies, but that is only of benefit to dogs and bats.
 
Sloop John B said:
I
It's well worth partaking though as Mark comes from a company that makes hi res recordings and was surprised with an earlier (smaller) test that showed few people could accurately tell the difference. Mark is a scientist and even though he might not 't like what the results are telling him, the analysis will be rigorous.

.sjb
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The impression I have from following him for a number of years is that he aimed to make the very best hi rez recordings and got annoyed that stuff was being passed off as hi rez when it wasn't really (not just upsampled 16/44 but anything recorded with a mic with no response above 20khz, analogue mastertape.) This led to a train of thought along the lines of what really mattered in hi rez, which has gradually led him to the uncomfortable point of not quite being sure whether it matters at all.
He wrote a pretty good book on audio recently.
 
Good Morning All,

Had a quick (??) first pass through the files last night using the Sony WF-1000XM3 earpieces and I can see it isn't going to be a 5 minute job. I'll need to upload the files to the NAS for playing through the streamer.

Regards

Richard
 
Julf said:
The "improved accuracy" depends on your definition of accuracy. The greater potential signal-to-noise ratio is measurable and verifiable, but useless as long as both source materials and listening rooms have a significantly higher noise floor. A higher sample rate gives ability to reproduce ultrasonic frequencies, but that is only of benefit to dogs and bats.
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Perfect filter anyone?

1019dCSBartfig03.jpg

dCS Bartók, F5, impulse response (one sample at 0dBFS, 44.1kHz sampling, 4ms time window).


1019dCSBartfig04.jpg

dCS Bartók, F5, wideband spectrum of white noise at –4dBFS (left channel red, right magenta) and 19.1kHz tone at 0dBFS (left blue, right cyan), with data sampled at 44.1kHz (20dB/vertical div.).


1019dCSBartfig02.jpg

dCS Bartók, F4, impulse response (one sample at 0dBFS, 44.1kHz sampling, 4ms time window).

1019dCSBartfig06.jpg

dCS Bartók, F4, wideband spectrum of white noise at –4dBFS (left channel red, right magenta) and 19.1kHz tone at –3dBFS (left blue, right cyan), with data sampled at 44.1kHz (20dB/vertical div.).

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-bartok-da-processorheadphone-amplifier-measurements
 
Julf said:
A higher sample rate gives ability to reproduce ultrasonic frequencies, but that is only of benefit to dogs and bats.
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One could argue that with sample rates above 48kHz (perhaps equal to, I haven't tested) you could use a linear phase filter without any audible roll-off.
 
tuga said:
One could argue that with sample rates above 48kHz (perhaps equal to, I haven't tested) you could use a linear phase filter without any audible roll-off.
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One could argue that it doesn't matter. :)

The "ringing" that some people make such an issue out of only occurs with artificial test signals that violate the Nyquist criteria, and is at the filter cutoff frequency, so inaudible anyway.
 
darrenyeats said:
For people (like me) who own mostly red book stuff, I suggest the feeling would be relief, for the obvious reason.
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But where am I going to get my fix?
[Odd too that the vilified "perfect sound forever" might not have been wide of the mark.]
 
Julf said:
One could argue that it doesn't matter. :)

The "ringing" that some people make such an issue out of only occurs with artificial test signals that violate the Nyquist criteria, and is at the filter cutoff frequency, so inaudible anyway.
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It matters if one can hear the roll-off and/or the ringing and/or leaking aliases...

Most CD players and DACs now come with an assortment of filters for the owner to choose from. Why is that? Because they sound different. My music player has almost 30 (though many of them are for experiemntal/educational purposes only).
Download the free trial version and give it a go.
 
tuga said:
It matters if one can hear the roll-off and/or the ringing and/or leaking aliases...
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Indeed. If.

Most CD players and DACs now come with an assortment of filters for the owner to choose from. Why is that? Because they sound different. My music player has almost 30 (though many of them are for experiemntal/educational purposes only).
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Sure. Lots of DACs have all sorts of sub-optimal filters with cutoffs affecting the audible frequencies or allowing aliasing products that cause IM - just to please audiophiles and their belief systems.
 
Julf said:
Indeed. If.
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You can't?

Julf said:
Sure. Lots of DACs have all sorts of sub-optimal filters with cutoffs affecting the audible frequencies or allowing aliasing products that cause IM - just to please audiophiles and their belief systems.
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Because there is no optimal filter. Of course this wouldn't be audible if the low-pass frequency were higher up. 24kHz might do the trick.
 
tuga said:
You can't?



Because there is no optimal filter. Of course this wouldn't be audible if the low-pass frequency were higher up. 24kHz might do the trick.
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I've enjoyed having DAC filter options. Don't understand them fully but nice to find the one that feels best.
 
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