tuga
Legal Alien
Can you name a few decent SMPSs? Is the iFi one decent? (measurements I've seen seem to suggest so)
Can you tell the difference between 96/24 and 44/16 and mp3?
- Thread starter Sloop John B
- Start date
Can you name a few decent SMPSs? Is the iFi one decent? (measurements I've seen seem to suggest so)
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
It's very unlikely that a PSU will make any difference to a digital product... beyond of course the imagined improvement that many will claim to hear no matter what the topic under discussion or the impossibility of any difference!
As I said, the capacitors at point of load are what does the donkey work in digital... hence you will often see many capacitors around the CPU in a PC and also around other sensitive power hungry IC's.
A decent linear supply will be maybe 10 X faster than a SMPS at responding to load changes though.
tuga
Legal Alien
It probably doesn't make a difference with the Cubox then.
What about for injecting "clean" USB power into the DAC?
Julf
Facts are our friends
Pretty much every one apart from the really cheap phone charger type ones.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Linear supplies are superior to SMPS in every way other than cost, size, weight and heat produced. When, where and to what extent this matters is another thing entirely!
The biggest problem with USB power will be simply that it is coming from a source at the far end of a thin lead with an even thinner internal set of wires for power. The resistance and inductance of this means it's never going to be good... However, in many circumstances the 5V will be regulated down to a lower voltage such as 3.3V and the quality of this regulator and its output capacitors etc is what matters.
I can't repeat enough that in most situations "the power supply" simply doesn't matter as there is another "power supply" after it inside the equipment being powered and it is this one that is important. Unfortunately this is not a universal truth as some items do indeed have no other supply but the external one but as a guesstimate I'd say 80% + of items will have further regulation etc internally.
Sloop John B
And any old music will do…
No one actually taking the time to partake in a blind test of hi-res music then?
.sjb
.sjb
darrenyeats
pfm Member
There might be a track somewhere that works well, but generally I think I'd fail in a blind test with multiple trials (the kind needed to prove statistically a difference can be heard). And it would be very unpleasant. And if I fail, it would only prove that the audible difference is small-to-nothing (the thing I already know). For me it wouldn't prove the audible difference is actually zero (the thing I want to know).
Let's put it this way, in the aforementioned 9/10 result I mentioned, the amazing thing wasn't that I scored 9, it was that I got one wrong near the end. Because it was pretty bloody obvious. But you get tired after a while and it all mushes together somehow.
With an obvious difference it's less strain.
After how few trials would I get mushed with a really subtle difference? Quite possibly before I could achieve a statistically significant score.
You can only solve this with a large group of people doing a very small number of trials. But then you've introduced variables like possible golden ears, different systems, levels of familiarity, preparation, training etc.
I believe it could be done, but it would be a rigorous and huge scientific undertaking for the results to be taken seriously. That's justified for important matters like medicine.
Let's put it this way, in the aforementioned 9/10 result I mentioned, the amazing thing wasn't that I scored 9, it was that I got one wrong near the end. Because it was pretty bloody obvious. But you get tired after a while and it all mushes together somehow.
With an obvious difference it's less strain.
After how few trials would I get mushed with a really subtle difference? Quite possibly before I could achieve a statistically significant score.
You can only solve this with a large group of people doing a very small number of trials. But then you've introduced variables like possible golden ears, different systems, levels of familiarity, preparation, training etc.
I believe it could be done, but it would be a rigorous and huge scientific undertaking for the results to be taken seriously. That's justified for important matters like medicine.
Julf
Facts are our friends
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Good Morning All,
I was determined to have a listen to some representative tracks so went to the site linked in the second posting in this thread -https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...are-file-formats/?tab=comments#comment-483420 and downloaded the Hoff Ensemble - Polarity - Innocence track in Stereo 24bit/ 352.8kHz and Original CD 16bit/ 44kHz on to my trusty NAS (Synology DS218j) and listened several times to both tracks through what I think a lot of people would say was a pretty fair system.
I'm going to put my hand in the air and say that much as I wanted to hear a difference I honestly couldn't, I'm almost certain that in a truly blind test it would be pure luck if I could tell the difference. Right now I want to get a hold of a Klimax DS/3 and do this test again to determine if the streamer is the limiting factor...........
I don't see it as being able to hear frequencies above say 13kHz because I know at near 63 yrs of age my hearing isn't that it was I would just have expected the increased sampling rate would 'capture' stuff that the 44kHz rate 'missed'.
Interesting.
I've 'applied' to http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6713 and will try it out if they reply and provide a link to the files.
Regards
Richard
I was determined to have a listen to some representative tracks so went to the site linked in the second posting in this thread -https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...are-file-formats/?tab=comments#comment-483420 and downloaded the Hoff Ensemble - Polarity - Innocence track in Stereo 24bit/ 352.8kHz and Original CD 16bit/ 44kHz on to my trusty NAS (Synology DS218j) and listened several times to both tracks through what I think a lot of people would say was a pretty fair system.
I'm going to put my hand in the air and say that much as I wanted to hear a difference I honestly couldn't, I'm almost certain that in a truly blind test it would be pure luck if I could tell the difference. Right now I want to get a hold of a Klimax DS/3 and do this test again to determine if the streamer is the limiting factor...........
I don't see it as being able to hear frequencies above say 13kHz because I know at near 63 yrs of age my hearing isn't that it was I would just have expected the increased sampling rate would 'capture' stuff that the 44kHz rate 'missed'.
Interesting.
I've 'applied' to http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6713 and will try it out if they reply and provide a link to the files.
Regards
Richard
tuga
Legal Alien
What DAC are you using?
Did you try with headphones?
May I suggest that you listen regularly to the 24bit/ 352.8kHz version for about a week. Then choose a quiet time of the day, listen to the 24-bit/352.8kHz version once then to the 16-bit/44.1kHz.
This is how I was able to pinpoint the differences (though not with the recording in question).
In my opinion and experience A/B comparisons are only effective at identifying crude differences.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
So you listened for a week, with headphones at quiet times of the day and only then you were you able to discern a difference ,but not with those particular files!
Keith
Keith
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Tuqa,
I don't possess a pair of headphones - only a pair of Sony WF-1000XM3 wireless in-ear thingies which I use with my iPhone.
The equipment used is listed in my signature
- I'm listening through a Linn Akurate DS/3 Katalyst.I do need to listen to more pieces and when Mark Waldrup responds and provides a link to his files I'll listen to them.
The point is that when I went to Cymbiosis and Peter took me through the LP12 upgrade route I was IMMEDIATELY able to discern the differences each piece of equipment made.
It was a whole lot less clear when I listened to my then upgraded turntable (no Urika II/ Collaro mat at that point) against the Climax DS/3 Katalyst Phil demonstrated on my next visit. In a perfect world I would have liked to have spent more time doing A/ B comparisons.
The difference the Collaro mat was immediately obvious and that was only playing a couple of INXS tracks.
The point is I know my ears 'work'. I have listened to the Innocence track four times in both formats....... on a system a lot of people would say was pretty damn good and nothing leapt out at me. A piece of music with only three instruments to be listening out for is pretty discerning, there's nowhere for anything to hide....
I don't always agree with Keith but I think his post above makes a point.
Regards
Richard
Julf
Facts are our friends
As Messrs Shannon and Nyquist proved back in the 1930s, there is nothing "missed".
tuga
Legal Alien
Tuqa,
I don't possess a pair of headphones - only a pair of Sony WF-1000XM3 wireless in-ear thingies which I use with my iPhone.
The equipment used is listed in my signature
I do need to listen to more pieces and when Mark Waldrup responds and provides a link to his files I'll listen to them.
The point is that when I went to Cymbiosis and Peter took me through the LP12 upgrade route I was IMMEDIATELY able to discern the differences each piece of equipment made.
It was a whole lot less clear when I listened to my then upgraded turntable (no Urika II/ Collaro mat at that point) against the Climax DS/3 Katalyst Phil demonstrated on my next visit. In a perfect world I would have liked to have spent more time doing A/ B comparisons.
The difference the Collaro mat was immediately obvious and that was only playing a couple of INXS tracks.
The point is I know my ears 'work'. I have listened to the Innocence track four times in both formats....... on a system a lot of people would say was pretty damn good and nothing leapt out at me. A piece of music with only three instruments to be listening out for is pretty discerning, there's nowhere for anything to hide....
I don't always agree with Keith but I think his post above makes a point.
Regards
Richard
I am not doubting your experience, just wondering whether something in your system or your methodology could be influencing the result. Can you hear differences between digital filters using Redbook?
Years ago I took the Philips Golden Ear Challenge (to Silver, then gave up due to the awful track they used) and it took me a while to distinguish between 320kbps mp3 and Redbook using my son's budget Sennheiser closed-back over-ear headphones thought my laptop's soundcard. I think that the training they offered helped, sometimes it's hard to find differences if you don't know what you are looking for or use the right material.
I really dislike doing A/B comparisons, they're tiring and boring.
It took me years before finally deciding to compare Redbook to higher resolution and my bias was tipping strongly towards no difference.
Still buy a lot more CDs than high-res downloads.
Cereal Killer
432
It's fairly easy to spot the differences between low quailty lossy and basic lossless. Less so on badly mastered music.
Excellent quality 16/44 and poor quality 24/192 are on a par.
Good quality 16/44 and excellent quality 24/192 is also easy to spot.
Again, its about the datum of where your reference point begins from.
Excellent quality 16/44 and poor quality 24/192 are on a par.
Good quality 16/44 and excellent quality 24/192 is also easy to spot.
Again, its about the datum of where your reference point begins from.
Julf
Facts are our friends
3
35451
Guest
Isn't that a bit like "how would I feel if I found out Santa Claus isn't for real?"?
"Say it ain't so Joe"