The Chronicals
Disruptor
I still like Ketchup.
Why are thinking that data itself is place where is the trouble. To make and maintain conection there are several levels under data and protocols where is also quite possible to run in trouble. That is still electrical connection. There is no zeros and ones in physical level, they are only in your head.
Yes, in extreme cases you do indeed get transmission/data errors, but I don't think that is what we are discussing.
When digital audio is packetised and sent over a network, both the sample rate and the samples are encapsulated in the bits. Typically those bits are sent using TCP/IP. The TCP part ensures that all of the packets are received intact or an error is reported. When digital audio is sent as PCM or DSD from a streamer to a DAC, only the samples are encapsulated in the bits themselves. The sample rate is determined by the rate at which bits flow between the streamer and the DAC. Left unchecked, variances in the timing of the bits will alter the analogue waveform which the DAC outputs. It has been argued that a competently designed DAC will deal with these issues, but the reality is that some DACs are better than others at recovering from these errors.
Zeros and ones are only for human perception, so he can visualize and work with it. For toslink it is light pulses, for cd pits, for hdd magnetic charge and so on. Yes, toslink does not have electrical connection, but still light transmission can be not perfect and it has to converted to electrical signal to work with. Ethernet also is galvanic isolated, that does not make it perfect. There is more to data transmission than just data. Even firmware and software used can give different results.There are zeros and ones at the output of the receiver at the end of the connection. If you use an optical connection (S/PDIF, toslink) there is no electrical connection.
Thanks.
Perhaps I didn't explain my circumstances earlier or perhaps it got lost in the thread.
Its a bit boring but please have a read.
I already have a Simaudio 380d streaming dac. I recently acquired a Trinnov ST 2 HiFi for room correction. The 380d has a digital monitor loop for incorporation of RC devices and thats what I was using so
380d digital out into Trinnov, digital out of Trinnov back into 380d for D to A. My CDT also plugs into the 380d.
However I suspect the monitor loop on the Moon isn't that well implemented. The CDT sounds better if plugged straight into the Trinnov and then allow it to do D to A.
So bottom line is I no longer want to use the dac in the 380d /use its monitor loop. I can plug my cdt and a streamer straight into the Trinnov.
The 380d has the older MiND 1 which is ok but not great as an app. It is also non dsd (not sure if I even need this) and non Roon. I gather MiND2 is much better.
So hence my idea to trade the 380d for a new streamer with all the bells and whistles.
However, the 380d can be upgraded to MiND2 with Roon (but not dsd) for circa £800.
Initial enquiries suggest my 380d might only be worth circa £1k for trade in. So if I were to buy a £2k streamer I'd have £1k to pay. The alternative is that I upgrade the 380d for £800 and use its digital output and not its dac.
I would need to test its digital output to make sure its ok. I will have a dac which I don't need right now but who knows what the future may bring. It also has a multitude of inputs inc usb etc.
So either way I'm looking at £800 to £1k.
Now that I've written it all out perhaps the obvious answer is to upgrade the 380d and bypass its dac....once I've convinced myself that its digital output is well implemented.
Thanks for reading all that!
Zeros and ones are only for human perception
Noise absolutely can be and is digitised, packetised and sent over Ethernet networks. I think what you mean to say is that the process of moving it across an Ethernet network does not add noise. Remember also that sending digital audio from a streamer to a DAC is very different from sending it from a NAS or streaming service to a streamer.
Why are thinking that data itself is place where is the trouble. To make and maintain conection there are several levels under data and protocols where is also quite possible to run in trouble. That is still electrical connection. There is no zeros and ones in physical level, they are only in your head.
Is SI ole a Spanish computer language?That's like saying the wind doesn't exist or gravity , cos yo can't see it - you can only observe its affects.
This is incorrect. All the computers on the planet, be them in washing machines or poncey hi fi, operate on a 1 or Zero be nary code stream. (Well some do hexadecimal but let's keep it SI ole) Data moves in streams, chunks or packets from storage devices to CPU or chipsets to peripheral devices and onto access/ listening devices, using electricity either optically or via wire.
You are wrong on several counts there and your post shows a lack of understanding.
As per gints post zeros and ones are for human perception. Digital/computers are usually dual-state machines. We ascribe zero and one for the two states for our convenience. There is the possibility to have multiple-state machines and these have been considered. Clearly in that case we'd need to develop out of zeros and ones.No, zeros and ones are for any digital circuit. No matter what the analog value on the transmission line is, it is either below or above the threshold value between "0" and "1", and the receiving circuit will determine that.
As per gints post zeros and ones are for human perception.
Digital/computers are usually dual-state machines. We ascribe zero and one for the two states for our convenience.
There is the possibility to have multiple-state machines and these have been considered. Clearly in that case we'd need to develop out of zeros and ones.
1 or 0 can also be described as on or off, it frankly matters little what names we use, we could use A and B. Boolean algebra again is a human construct, it's the way we choose to manipulate our our human defined 1 and 0.Not really. They are for the logic gates of the processor and DAC.
Not just our convenience, but also to be able to use boolean algebra.
Not only has it been considered, but it has actually been done. Many times. There have been decimal computers and octal computers, and probably other number bases. Many newer flash memory chips use 4-state cells. A friend of mine is working on ternary logic for quantum computers.
Unfortunately evolution has not favoured absolute repeatability or accuracy, but forming patterns - even when there aren't any.
Can you trust your ears?
One side insists its all ones and zeros so no difference if using a half decent dac. On the other hand there are reviews from people like Donnie Darko where he clearly states that the Auralic Aries G1 sounds better than a Blue sound and that the Innuous Statement sounds better than the G1.