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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+22)?

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Tony L said:
Any seats that go to a pro-remain progressive rather than an obviously hopelessly conflicted Labour increases the prospect of softening or ideally derailing Brexit.
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Any vote against the only party that can prevent a Tory government is a vote for a Tory government.
 
maxflinn said:
Any vote against the only party that can prevent a Tory government is a vote for a Tory government.
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Bullshit. You clearly grasp neither math or the constituency system. A minority Labour government reliant on votes of the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens and PC would be a far more formidable opponent to Brexit than Corbyn’s fence-sitting Labour alone.
 
Tony L said:
Bullshit. You clearly grasp neither math or the constituency system.
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It'll either be the Tories or Labour that'll have a majority, or the most seats.

In the latter case the Tories (with the most seats) would be given the chance to form a coalition, as they were in 2017.

You then get a Tory Brexit.

The more seats the Greens or austerity-enabling Lib Dems take from Labour the greater the risk of it being the Tories in the box seat.

It's really not that difficult to figure this stuff out.
 
A minority Lib/Green/SNP alliance government reliant on the shattered remains of the Labour party to revoke article 50 and...
 
Any vote against the only party that can prevent a Tory government is a vote for a Tory government.

That's similar to "my enemies enemy is my friend"
No they are still your enemy. Why get into bed with someone you don't like. You should always vote for the party you want and not a tactical vote. This is the problem with our politicians they are only interested in the party and not our country.
 
maxflinn said:
It'll either be the Tories or Labour that'll have a majority, or the most seats.

In the latter case the Tories (with the most seats) would be given the chance to form a coalition, as they were in 2017.

You then get a Tory Brexit.

The more seats the Greens or austerity-enabling Lib Dems take from Labour the greater the risk of it being the Tories in the box seat.

It's really not that difficult to figure this stuff out.
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I guess it depends a lot on how much Labour’s voter base collapses by then! If it carries on at the current rate then all bets are off!
 
jackbarron said:
Barry Gardiner is on Marr. He says we are at the point where Labour want a second referendum.

So is this the official Labour stance? asked Marr.

Gardiner talked around this.

So everybody in the Shadow Cabinet are in favour of this, said Marr, apart from Corbyn.

Gardiner didn't say yes or no. What a surprise. Not.

Instead he said the only weapon Labour have got is a vote of no confidence in the government.

Has that cleared things up? I thought not.

Jack
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I think that’s being unfair Jack. Gardiner was saying that it’s all very well being in favour of a second referendum but only the government has the authority to set one up. Therefore Labour would need to win a GE first in order to get the authority to set up a referendum.
 
puddlesplasher said:
That's similar to "my enemies enemy is my friend"
No they are still your enemy. Why get into bed with someone you don't like. You should always vote for the party you want and not a tactical vote.
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Fine if there's a system of proportional representation, but there isn't.

Tories winning = hard Brexit.

Tories not winning = no hard Brexit.

Therefore, at least for those many members on here who see avoiding a hard Brexit as the most important thing, Tories not winning is paramount.

Given both the Tories and Labour are guaranteed to get more seats than any of the other parties, if you want no hard Brexit, you'll need to be voting for Labour.

Even remainers need to be tactical...
 
There is only a point in voting *Labour where the records show a Remain party can't win.

*this is subject to immediate review should Labour's stance change.
 
In case you didn't realise the Tories are in and we are going to get a hard Brexit like it or not. If by some chance we do have a GE I can't see an outright winner. We are more than likely going to get either Labour or the Conservatives
Needing support from someone like the Liberals, SNP or DUP and we know what kind of shit they will keep us in. The Conservatives already use tax payers money to pay the DUP to keep them in power. Its only about money and power and always will be.
 
maxflinn said:
Any vote against the only party that can prevent a Tory government is a vote for a Tory government.
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Nonsense. It is a vote for Green, the SNP, Lib-Dems, Communists or whoever.

This continual threat by Corybnites is purely their own fault.

Jack
 
maxflinn said:
Fine if there's a system of proportional representation, but there isn't.

Tories winning = hard Brexit.

Tories not winning = no hard Brexit.

Therefore, at least for those many members on here who see avoiding a hard Brexit as the most important thing, Tories not winning is paramount.

Given both the Tories and Labour are guaranteed to get more seats than any of the other parties, if you want no hard Brexit, you'll need to be voting for Labour.

Even remainers need to be tactical...
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The best result for those that don't see the remain option as being dead is for neither of the main leave parties to gain a majority. From my perspective if (God forbid) one of the leave parties was to gain a majority then of course I'd prefer it was Labour that the Tories. I see either as a disaster though, so would much rather see a hung parliament where the SNP, LibDem and others can force Labour to act in a democratic fashion despite their rabid pro-leave leader.
 
puddlesplasher said:
In case you didn't realise the Tories are in and we are going to get a hard Brexit like it or not. If by some chance we do have a GE I can't see an outright winner. We are more than likely going to get either Labour or the Conservatives
Needing support from someone like the Liberals, SNP or DUP and we know what kind of shit they will keep us in. The Conservatives already use tax payers money to pay the DUP to keep them in power. Its only about money and power and always will be.
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A lot of people apparently didn’t realise that the Conservatives were in power.

If they did know, I don’t understand why they thought the Tories were going to usher in a socialist Brexit.

There’s not going to be a GE before October. I was wrong about that. Johnson and the Tories won’t take the risk.

Stephen
 
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