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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+13)?

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Seanm said:
For one quite large group known as the Conservative Party those values and interests run the gamut from sadism to carpetbagging and the only way to deal with them is to get rid.
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Lovely idea, but how do you propose doing that in the reasonably short term? Seems they have more votes than your lot.
 
PsB said:
The WA is a transition agreement. It is designed to let the UK leave in an organized way, so that the discussion about the future relationship can then start. All discussions about Canada ++, Norway+, take place afterwards as they require lengthy debate and painful compromises for British politicians on all sides. The EU has been adamant about this sequencing right from the very beginning. It is silly to assume it will roll over and play dead now. Britain is going to have to confront the lies and wishful thinking that continue even after 2.5 years of Brexit "debate". A referendum might help at the end of this process, but certainly not at the beginning. Nobody can even agree on what the question(s) would be.
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Yes. There are essentially three options now:

1) No deal.
2) Accept something very close to the WA part of May's deal and negotiate a better future relationship in the transition.
3) Repeal Article 50.

Which, given both May and Corbyn seems dead against 1) and 3) leads to 2). So the logical way forward is for Corbzy and May to start working together and hammering out the parameters of future relationship so that the WA can be voted through with an amended PD acceptable to a clear majority in the house. This sidelines the ERG and Labour's handful of ments and puts the national interest ahead of party politics.

Except, you know, politics. And I suspect May and Corbyn are literally incapable of this sort of thing.
 
Surely, if May steps down and the Conservatives vote in a Brexiteer, they'll easily win a snap election as the 'Brexit party'?

No Tory voter will go for Corbyn and Labour will haemorrhage votes to the Conservatives, Greens or LibDems depending on the stance the party takes towards Brexit.

A Conservative tunnel-vision Brexiteer will be seen as a 'strong' leader in the shires and leave areas.

The only 'fly' might be that UKIP might get a few MPs–but they'll just join the DUP and the Conservative table anyhow.


Stephen
 
matthewr said:
Yes. There are essentially three options now:

1) No deal.
2) Accept something very close to the WA part of May's deal and negotiate a better future relationship in the transition.
3) Repeal Article 50.

Which, given both May and Corbyn seems dead against 1) and 3) leads to 2). So the logical way forward is for Corbzy and May to start working together and hammering out the parameters of future relationship so that the WA can be voted through with an amended PD acceptable to a clear majority in the house. This sidelines the ERG and Labour's handful of ments and puts the national interest ahead of party politics.

Except, you know, politics. And I suspect May and Corbyn are literally incapable of this sort of thing.
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Ha ha yes and the small point that any version of 2) means a red line goes. Any of the red lines go and the whole thing becomes pointless (devil's advocate here - imo it's all pointless) because rather than "taking back control" we will be rule takers to some degree.
 
droodzilla said:
That was a double-bluff from Corbyn. He's been aiming for hard Brexit since the day after the referendum. Cunning b*stard.
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Yes we can believe in his cunning plan that will deliver both no Brexit damage and a Labour government, or we can look at the evidence. ;)
 
Easy, Tories abandon a No deal, at least the one in March, extend the consultation period and Labour drop the back-stop non-issue they (and others) use to sabotage the process.

Talk.

All failing, hard exit after extended period.

Sorted.
 
HairyHaggis said:
say what you like, tony blair speaks and talks with much more clarity, gravitas and sense of analysis than dear sweet jeremy ever did.
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I left the Labour Party over Iraq, but a lot of the good things in our society over the last 20 years came about as a direct result of Blair's government. He is easily the best PM this country has had in my lifetime and listening to him speak about Brexit on Radio 4 a month or so ago I heard more clarity of thought and common sense in an hour than I have heard from the combined spokespeople from all the parties since. We need a leader of his stature, but we have no one, not a single person who can come forward from any party and do what needs to be done. It's depressing!
 
Yvette Cooper for Labour (by miles), and on the Tory side Amber Rudd or Rory Stewart would be the least bad option
 
tiggers said:
I left the Labour Party over Iraq, but a lot of the good things in our society over the last 20 years came about as a direct result of Blair's government. He is easily the best PM this country has had in my lifetime and listening to him speak about Brexit on Radio 4 a month or so ago I heard more clarity of thought and common sense in an hour than I have heard from the combined spokespeople from all the parties since. We need a leader of his stature, but we have no one, not a single person who can come forward from any party and do what needs to be done. It's depressing!
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Not a current Labour fan (as if I have to point that out) but agree that Blair was imho far preferable to anything they have sitting on the benches currently.
 
I was trying to think of how we could make the current political situation more toxic and was struggling until this thread reminded my of Tony Blair.
 
Iraq was the deal-breaker for me, I swore never to vote Labour again in my life after he shackled the UK to the wrong-headed crusade of a popularist right-wing US Republican administration. By saying that, and despite the fact a lot of the intensely slippery corporate question-evading ‘party above country politics’ styling came in with Blair, there is no doubt that he presided over the strongest economy and strongest period of infrastructure building/readjustment of my lifetime. I can’t take that away from him. He really was far more economically and socially competent than that which went before or came after.

PS Stupidly I broke my rule and voted for Corbyn’s shower of slippery double-speaking idiots last time. Anyway, I’ve now learnt my lesson. Never again. I am just not a Labour voter as regardless of progressive tendencies in many areas they have a nasty habit of being entirely wrong on the key issue of the day.
 
Maybe some A50 delay could give time for Scotland to arrange to bail out, then full Brexit could go ahead with mass movements of refugees like the 1947 Indian partition
 
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