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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+13)?

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Then expect to be called stupid by people who think this course of action is self destructive, it is now what matters, the past is the past, no changing it, surely those who profess higher intelligence to those who protest voted in the 2016 ref, should follow their own advice & vote for the betterment of the country.

Do you feel Brexit will be handled better with this government in charge of it, I don't.

I can't think of anything more destructive than voting for Brexit in the first place, stupid is not realising an idea was wrong and blindly pushing ahead anyway.
 
You'll want to skip to 14:50 to get to the start of this new talk by Timothy Snyder. He explains the myth of the modern European nation state. And why Brexit = collapse.

 
Then expect to be called stupid by people who think this course of action is self destructive

Surely not by the people who object to being called stupid for voting for Brexit though? For that would be rank hypocrisy.

FWIW I think taking the votes of people like me (centrist, reluctant remain, etc.) for granted is exactly the same problem as previous Labour leaderships taking Labour heartland votes for granted for years.

(To be clear, I don't think people should be called stupid for either vote. And I don't think anyone's vote should be taken for granted and instead any decent political party should be able to build a consensus when faced with a neoliberal government that not only wears it's c**tishness on its sleeve but is laugh-out-loud incompetent).
 
Here is a guide on how to be a good immigrant to fool Brexiteers and the official Labour Party. The main things are be white, not a Muslim, don't speak a foreign language and get drunk as often as possible.

Jack

 
Looks like Jaguar I-Pace was the best sold car in december in the Netherlands, fortunately it is being made in Austria so probably little Brexit troubles there :) Jaguar that great Austrian brand.
 
Politicizing the firework display was a mistake and I expect it to bite him at the next mayoral election. It's also done no favours for Labour...IMO.

It is one of the only decent things Khan has done since he became mayor.

Jack
 
Surely not by the people who object to being called stupid for voting for Brexit though? For that would be rank hypocrisy.

FWIW I think taking the votes of people like me (centrist, reluctant remain, etc.) for granted is exactly the same problem as previous Labour leaderships taking Labour heartland votes for granted for years.

(To be clear, I don't think people should be called stupid for either vote. And I don't think anyone's vote should be taken for granted and instead any decent political party should be able to build a consensus when faced with a neoliberal government that not only wears it's c**tishness on its sleeve but is laugh-out-loud incompetent).
It's always difficult to build a consensus amongst constituencies marked by very different material interests and experiences, and Brexit represents a maximally difficult case of this fundamental difficulty. A common enemy ( c____ish government) isn't enough: there has to be a positive vision, and as I've been arguing, there just isn't the space to develop one. I think we're coming up against the limits of the whole system and it will take either an extraordinary event (no idea what) or an extraordinary political invention (maybe a citizens' assembly) to break through it.

I don't think your being taken for granted is really anything like the taking for granted of working class voters under New Labour, by the way. Centrists are not under-represented in parliament or the media, and they have plenty of civil society institutions that support their interests. Society has essentially been built around their interests for a long time. There's really no comparison, beyond the taking for granted bit, and even that doesn't really ring true: Labour are nothing like as complacent about middle class votes as Mandelson and co ("They have nowhere else to go") were about working class votes.
 
Politicizing the firework display was a mistake and I expect it to bite him at the next mayoral election. It's also done no favours for Labour...IMO.

Perhaps he needs some guidance from the Archbishop just down the road.
The Muslamic Lefty. LOCK HIM UP!!!!!!

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It's always difficult to build a consensus amongst constituencies marked by very different material interests and experiences, and Brexit represents a maximally difficult case of this fundamental difficulty.

This is such a terrible argument that basically comes down to "Not fair!". If they can't solve it now when they don't need to actually do anything, can be maximally vague and can ignore most of the details how on earth do they expect to manage when they are in charge? And why would anyone take them seriously if they cannot convince even people on their side that they know what to do?

I don't think your being taken for granted is really anything like the taking for granted of working class voters under New Labour, by the way.

It is exactly the same real politik calculus of "They have nowhere else to go" and is literally taking my vote for granted. New Labour's crime was not doing very much to help reduce regional and class inequality once they got elected.

Also although I joke about being a centrist, I am not really. I am a left wing traditional Labour voter. Thinking Corbyn is doing an obviously bad job doesn't make me a closet Blairite or Tory. Failing to acknowledge how terrible he has been is an electoral liability though and does rather beg the question what is everyone going to do if he loses?
 
Politicizing the firework display was a mistake and I expect it to bite him at the next mayoral election. It's also done no favours for Labour...IMO.

Perhaps he needs some guidance from the Archbishop just down the road.

I think you might be right.
 
People voted in protest in 2016 as they felt it would be for the betterment of the country, call this stupid or not, it was not an intentional act of destruction against the country, even if it proves to be in the future for many who voted remain, voting in protest now, by those who claim to have superior intellect is stupid IMO. How can ensuring a Tory Brexit be sensible at this point, how else can I call it but stupid, it is a selfish act against a politician who could actually get this country back on level footing across the board, because he refuses to "end" Brexit, the knives come out, wake up call, no politician is going to end Brexit so why stick with this bunch in charge, havn't they caused enough damage.
No, a protest vote does not necessarily have "betterment of the country" as its motive. It's just, erm, a protest, and stuff the consequences. Some people just want to stick it to the System, others can feel that voting to make the country worse off will hasten a later crisis, which can then be exploited, etc. Some of the dispossessed/disenfranchised you mention probably had these sorts of ideas in mind when they voted.
 
I wanted a Labour Brexit, it's old ground, not going over this all again, I felt Brexit would force a GE, it did, it ended Cameron's reign, unfortunately May has proved to be far worse, which is why i'm staggered at the idiocy shown here by supposedly intelligent people. Voting against Corbyn at this stage will guarantee another 5 years of Tory rule, could well be with a no deal Brexit, I cannot fathom the reasoning, that is unless, as I have stated before, Tory rule will affect very few at this level so keeping them in is an insignificance, IMO, intelligent folk voting now in protest against a man who could well heal some social division & create a fairer society, is far worse than anyone who voted out of sheer desperation in 2016, those who had been battered to a pulp by Cameron, this is a selfish, intentional act of sheer stupidity.
You're attempting to rewrite history.
  • A Labour Brexit was not on offer at the time.
  • Brexit did not force a GE. Cameron resigned for his own reasons and was promptly replaced by May - no GE involved, as I'm sure you noticed. The GE was called by May much later, as she estimated that Labour under Corbyn was such a shambles that she could consolidate her majority ahead of Brexit negotiations. She ran a dreadful campaign, to a point that made even Labour look organized, but Labour still don't have a majority.
  • No vote on Corbyn is scheduled at this stage. Sorry.
 
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