wylton
Naim and Mana member
I love the Aro, but those are hopelessly optimistic prices TBH!!
Tiger Paw Javelin Tone Arm
- Thread starter echann
- Start date
I love the Aro, but those are hopelessly optimistic prices TBH!!
lencotweaker
Mostly dreaming of record players
Hopefully the arm finds it's own way outside LP12-la-la-land too. An interesting comparison would be against a Graham Phantom, an arm that gave me Aro-like fluidity and musicality and SME V levels of precision and detail. There is a lot of development of new and reasonably priced tonearms again from the cottage industries which I think is very very welcome.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Blimey, I'd never looked at the Morch. They wouldn't look out of place in a 1960's Asain super villain's lair, that arm tube looks like it was formed with pliers. Each to their own.
Less than second hand aro seems very well priced. I would have expected over 2K based on looks, materials and UK built.
Less than second hand aro seems very well priced. I would have expected over 2K based on looks, materials and UK built.
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
They really aren't you know.
divedeepdog
pfm Member
I set up Micky's Moerch DP6, thought it was up there with the Aro sound quality, build was superb craftsman rather than precision engineered if that makes sense. More to fiddle with, but that suits some.
oldie
pfm Member
To the Naysayers and knockers
There is a very old saying that "there is nothing new under the Sun" the implication being that everything is either a development or re-hash of something else, every record playing platter is just a re think of a very simple spinning disc and bearing ,but that doesn't stop all of probably hundreds of record player manufacturers producing their own version.
Linn "borrowed" their LP 12 design from some one else, Julian used a very old and well known Amplifier circuit design and improved it, it's called progress and if Tiger Paw can improve on what is a already existing design for unipivots in general, good luck to them, its not a copy but a design requirement of engineering principles, the mass is needed to be below the shaft to enable the bearing to function efficiently and correctly , so most Uni-pivots follow a very similar design.
From the included images TPA seem to have managed to eliminate some of the problems that have marred the design and more importantly the user experience of the existing uni pivots that are now available ( I use a Aro myself so I know what a pain cueing can be, and Naim dropped their own ( nightmare) cueing device).
To be totally honest in my opinion £1800 for well designed and manufactured Tone Arm is a Steal , a bargain there are some on here that have paid that amount of money on cables . Don't forget Naims top of the range Amp is the cost of a house in some parts of the UK, but some see that as a bit of a bargain as well it all depends on the depth of your purse. I eagerly await Ynwoan's report on this new tone arms performance, and from my own experience I realise not just the cost of the R&D but also the time that goes into the manufacture of products, the cost of R&D is bad enough for very large companies but for a small almost one man bands( with apology's to TPA ) the cost are proportionately of magnitudes higher.
My very best wishes to TPA for the success of this new product.
oldie
There is a very old saying that "there is nothing new under the Sun" the implication being that everything is either a development or re-hash of something else, every record playing platter is just a re think of a very simple spinning disc and bearing ,but that doesn't stop all of probably hundreds of record player manufacturers producing their own version.
Linn "borrowed" their LP 12 design from some one else, Julian used a very old and well known Amplifier circuit design and improved it, it's called progress and if Tiger Paw can improve on what is a already existing design for unipivots in general, good luck to them, its not a copy but a design requirement of engineering principles, the mass is needed to be below the shaft to enable the bearing to function efficiently and correctly , so most Uni-pivots follow a very similar design.
From the included images TPA seem to have managed to eliminate some of the problems that have marred the design and more importantly the user experience of the existing uni pivots that are now available ( I use a Aro myself so I know what a pain cueing can be, and Naim dropped their own ( nightmare) cueing device).
To be totally honest in my opinion £1800 for well designed and manufactured Tone Arm is a Steal , a bargain there are some on here that have paid that amount of money on cables . Don't forget Naims top of the range Amp is the cost of a house in some parts of the UK, but some see that as a bit of a bargain as well it all depends on the depth of your purse. I eagerly await Ynwoan's report on this new tone arms performance, and from my own experience I realise not just the cost of the R&D but also the time that goes into the manufacture of products, the cost of R&D is bad enough for very large companies but for a small almost one man bands( with apology's to TPA ) the cost are proportionately of magnitudes higher.
My very best wishes to TPA for the success of this new product.
oldie
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I happen to think its a beautiful piece of product design. Love the way it looks.
Its all a matter of taste. For me arms like the Morch are more akin to Pagani interior design, whereas the ARO is more McLaren like. The Graham looks like it was designed purely for function over form.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
I would have to disagree with you there; I think it's a classic example of less is more.
Lucky me then; I'm quids in because I have two!
My first one was the first that arrived in the shop that I was using at the time; it was sub £700 if I remember correctly. Later, I bought a new Aro base, so that I could try the arm on different turntables. It cost £300 and was the last that Naim had I believe. I already had a cable, because I had upgraded the original arm to the prefix. Down the line, I was lucky enough to find an Aro top for £500! So my entire investment stands at £1.5K for the two.
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
The thing is, I’m not unaware of these production costs. I’ve been involved in manufacturing design and have been working on an arm for some years. Bearing in mind that this arm has a dealer markup attached (it’s sold through normal audio dealers, not direct) I’m genuinely astonished this arm is so cheap. If it came from the States, Sweden etc, it would be at least twice the price and quite likely four times (I realise some will think this ridiculous but it is true). I wouldn’t sell my own design for as little as this and that’s a fact!
Spike
pfm Member
This is meant as no criticism. The price is a steal. All those people who complain about prices, go out and try it yourself. Even Linn invest massively and employ a great number of people. Should they give it away and go tits up? Try getting a man in to do some plumbing, electrical work or building work...
I heard the Vertere arm recently
It was very good
However at £27k it should be
Hi end gear is uber expensive
It makes Rogers excellent products look like a bargain
Cheers
Tony
Tony L
Administrator
There is an excessive blingy ‘boutique’ end of the market these days that has little if anything to do with music reproduction IMHO. If tried and tested technology such as a tonearm ends up costing the average annual wage it is clear we are in trinkets for the uber-wealthy territory rather than furthering audio research. File under diamond-encrusted Rolex etc.
TPA
Trade: Tiger Paw
Yes, I tend to agree with you. To start with I was a little horrified at some of the things I saw at Munich, but by the same token I could see that finding patrons (customers) to fund these extremes can actually move things forward. If anything it encouraged me to improve on presentation etc, so maybe that's a positive. Though don't worry I'm not planning to release a blinged version for the oligarch market quite yet!
Tony L
Administrator
I’m now very firmly of the view that, digital aside, audio peaked in the late-50s through to the late-70s. I’ve heard countless absurdly expensive systems over recent years and very few indeed I even like, let alone would take over something like a TD-124/3012/SPU or Decca FFSS, Quad or Leak valve amp, and a pair of Quad ESLs or 15” Tannoys. We have covered very little distance since these early days of stereo, and in very many ways gone backwards with awful hyped-up slim ported floor-standers, metal dome tweeters, a rejection of a natural classical music-friendly balance etc. Digital is however revolutionary, a real game-changer and I absolutely love it! Thankfully it fits seamlessly into the best systems from audio’s golden age.
I totally get where TPA are coming from. The Naim Aro is a very nice and well respected arm that is no longer made. Offering a new arm heavily influenced by it, but subtly improved and updated will unquestionably fill a gap in the market, but I’d argue the price is right. A well engineered unipivot really shouldn’t cost the earth (and lets face it £1.8k is still a lot of cash to most folk, myself included). There is a very long history of very decent and not unaffordable unipivots from Gray, Hadcock, Transcriptors/Michell, Keith Monks, Mayware, Grace etc etc. All had their issues and quirks, but learning from them and sensibly adapting as TPA appear to have done needn’t result in a pretentious high-end bling-fest aimed at Russian oligarchs, movie stars, drug dealers and football players.
