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Oh Britain, what have you done (part XXII)?

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Sky's David Blevins, who is reckoned to be the best placed media source for contact with the DUP, says: "Sky sources: Despite constant contact with the Tories, the DUP was "never shown a copy of the text" presented in Brussels. #Brexit"

I'd put it down to incompetence and not knowing what they're doing rather than some tactical plan by May.

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

A third of the two years has gone with no agreement. If they don't get the agreement for next week (and it doesn't look good), a big shock coming to the pound for Xmas.
 
Laura's take on the mess, for what it's worth: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42235282

While it's clear the DUP was in close contact with the government it is possible to believe they hadn't seen the whole text complete with the caveats, because even senior officials involved in the talks weren't allowed to have electronic copies of the document, only hard copies.

And as there had been lots and lots of changes to the text over the weekend, it's not impossible to imagine that the final, final, final version that then emerged had not been shown in full to the DUP.

Others in government suggest the DUP had seen it all, and as we reported last night, the Tory chief whip told the PM it was all signed off. If that's the case, it is a much bigger political problem of trust for the PM, if the DUP had been kept in the loop and given their approval, but then threw their toys out of the pram.
 
Prescient PFM advertising here ...


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The DUP's Nigel Dodds was on Any Questions last week castigating the EU and Ireland for 'putting politics over economics' with respect to the border issue and trade. Isn't that what the entire Brexit project is about for most people? *

The simple way out of all this is to stay in the SM and CU. It's the ideologues of Brexit that are stopping that happening.

Stephen

*Obviously not the cabal of Conservative and business millionaires who see the whole thing as a way to make a fast buck.
 
The Daily Mail best rated comments on the recent development make interesting reading:
  • "I personally am VERY grateful to the DUP, because they saved us from May going it alone without a mandate and not only giving away all our money, but nearly handing Northern Ireland back to the Republic of Ireland free of charge !!!" (746 votes) (I really like the implication that someone out there is going to pay to take Northern Ireland)
  • "what she is trying to do is treason she is effectively giving Northern Ireland away" (526 votes)
  • "So it has cone down to the DUP to stand up for the British people .! Hopefully their intervention will bring all the cards crashing down .... maybe May will resign and go work in Brussels where her heart is ! I wish ! Thank you DUP!" (517 votes)
  • "What is wrong with May ? She is hopeless, weak, she's an appeaser. The very act of appeasement is to accept defeat. She is demeaning herself and Britain by her grovelling round this odious unelected drunk. She is not up to the job. She's an embarrassment." (455 votes)
  • "May needs the DUP not the EU." (398 votes)
 
The Far North said:
And as there had been lots and lots of changes to the text over the weekend, it's not impossible to imagine that the final, final, final version that then emerged had not been shown in full to the DUP.
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Dubious.

That oh so "minor tweak" of having Ireland and NI in the SM and CU would most likely not have been omitted from the earlier versions. It's the cornerstone of the whole thing.
 
I don’t see the ‘toy pram’ thing at all. Love them or hate them there is just no way the DUP could ever agree to what May was trying to do. It is against everything they stand for.

I still can’t picture any border scenario that could be acceptable to all parties, and that includes Scotland if the DUP are crushed on this one. To my mind Eire have the moral high-ground here as they didn’t vote for this idiocy. There is no way they should be responsible for any border as this mess is absolutely nothing to do with them.
 
Michael P said:
The Daily Mail best rated comments on the recent development make interesting reading:
  • "What is wrong with May ? She is hopeless, weak, she's an appeaser. The very act of appeasement is to accept defeat. She is demeaning herself and Britain by her grovelling round this odious unelected drunk. She is not up to the job. She's an embarrassment." (455 votes)
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I don’t think that’s right - Arlene Foster was elected fair and square, surely?
 
Tony L said:
I still can’t picture any border scenario that could be acceptable to all parties, and that includes Scotland if the DUP are crushed on this one. To my mind Eire have the moral high-ground here as they didn’t vote for this idiocy. There is no way they should be responsible for any border as this mess is absolutely nothing to do with them.
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I briefly caught one of the Tory Brexiteers being interviewed on this, and he said it was all "very simple" and that we "have the technology to do it". I think he was suggesting everything would somehow be x-ray scanned and tariffs would be automatically calculated and billed appropriately. Not 100% sure how that would work though.

Even if it did, though, immigration wasn't exactly a minor issue in the referendum, and without a hard border what stops Northern Ireland being a simple route into the sunlit uplands of Brexitannia? Or maybe that is the longer term plan - we can then copy the US and focus our hatred on "illegals" rather than EU "economic migrants".
 
Meanwhile, Nicola is out there seeking a consensus, while Ruth Davidson believes the "no hard border" should apply across the UK.

This could be the moment for opposition and soft Brexit/remain Tories to force a different, less damaging approach - keep the UK in the single market and customs union. But it needs Labour to get its act together. How about it @jeremycorbyn?


https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/937960116921536512

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42236312
 
Michael P said:
I briefly caught one of the Tory Brexiteers being interviewed on this, and he said it was all "very simple" and that we "have the technology to do it". I think he was suggesting everything would somehow be x-ray scanned and tariffs would be automatically calculated and billed appropriately. Not 100% sure how that would work though.
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It is just idiocy. Sure, they might be able to persuade really huge companies like Amazon etc to have the required technology on container trucks etc, but anything smaller will just fly over dodging tariffs/customs etc unless there is a hard border with proper checks. Just imagine the impact on wine, cigarettes etc, then scale it up to everything else. If the UK does leave with a full hard-Tory Brexit the UK economy and inflation will almost certainly be a very different and worse thing to the EU so that border, wherever it lies, will become a huge opportunity for the black economy let alone free-movement of people (likely out and into Europe!).

The absurd isolationism and protectionism Tory Brexit represents can only be achieved with authoritarianism. No soft solution is viable. This pleases me greatly as I really want it to fail. I suspect the bombs, shootings etc will start up again before we see a wall between NI and Eire or NI and Little England. It is simply unworkable.
 
Tony L said:
suspect the bombs, shootings etc will start up again before we see a wall between NI and Eire or NI and Little England. I
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This terrifies me. Irish terrorists makes DAESH seem like rank amateurs. I remember Manchester, Warrington, Birmingham and Brighton, London and Ireland.

Manchester 1996 ...

20th-anniversary-of-Manchester-blast.jpg


1993, London ...
3Vw3Ok6.jpg

Stephen
 
Indeed, and make no mistake that is the fire the idiot Tories are playing with. People really need to grasp just how hard-won the Good Friday Agreement was and how fragile it may prove to be.
 
I still think yesterday's events point to a final settlement in which *all* of the UK remains in the Customs Union (and Single Market?) in all but name. I know the DUP are pro-Brexit, but surely they would prefer this option to regulatory divergence from the rest of the UK.

It's worth pointing out this is very close to the Labour Party's official position: https://labourlist.org/2017/11/keir-starmer-tories-must-put-national-interest-first-and-rewrite-brexit-bill/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+LabourListLatestPosts+(LabourList)
That’s why over the summer I set out Labour’s clear and agreed position to negotiate an early agreement for strong transitional arrangements on the same basic terms as we currently have – by which we mean a time-limited period where Britain would remain within the single market and a customs union with the EU, accepting the common rules of both and retaining the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

I also set out that for the long term, unlike Theresa May who has ruled out any future relationship with the single market and the customs union, Labour would not sweep options off the table. On the contrary, subject of course to negotiations, remaining in a customs union with the EU is a viable long-term option for Labour.
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This is already a shift from the June manifesto position. Recently Corbyn has declined to rule out the prospect of a second referendum so there is scope for an even greater shift in future.

The essence of compromise is that all parties end up feeling slightly unhappy. Staying in the Customs Union fits the bill nicely.

As far as I can tell, the only people that will be *really* unhappy about this are Farage and the far-right nuts in the Tory Party. Good.

PS: Urgent question from Keir Starmer at 12:30 in the HoC today; might be worth tuning in to BBC Parliament to see DD flounder.
 
HairyHaggis said:
no, no and thrice no.



she already knows what the right thing to do would be; just what you have stated here. if she had a single ounce of measurable integrity, she would have stuck to her pre-referendum, anti-brexit stance and put it, forcefully, to the nation that they were embarking on a huge mistake. that, coupled with the promise to resign, promptly followed by her resignation would have been the right thing to do. instead, she has elected to go for the power and glory of being pm, at whatever cost to the nation. everything else has been subsumed in that personal ambition and in that, there should be no surprise, because the tory party embraces, embodies and enacts the perfidious, insidious principle of me first, everyone else second.
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I struggle to see either the power or the glory of her position. All I can see is humiliation.
 
droodzilla said:
I still think yesterday's events point to a final settlement in which *all* of the UK remains in the Customs Union (and Single Market?) in all but name. I know the DUP are pro-Brexit, but surely they would prefer this option to regulatory divergence from the rest of the UK.
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How? Why on earth would the EU agree to that, which is basically all carrot and no stick?
 
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