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Cartridge life.

D

Dufour

Active Member
How to get the most value from a cartridge and how to tell when it's going off and needs replacing.

I was told this week when selling my cartridge on deck that it's best to replace it before sound quality starts to drop off as records are damaged long before a drop off in quality is apparent. I'm not sure about this though.

Is there a physical way to check the quality of a used cartridge? The one I sold this week, I had to discount to almost "trade in" value as understandably how can a buyer be sure of hours/condition etc.

On the basis of hours quoted by sellers do people still use a cartridge timers or is it guess work/approximation.

As I've got an old cartridge that was expensive and has lots of value to me but with varying value to a buyer who would base their judgement on trust of age/handing/hours/setup more than condition. I digress.
 
Keeping a record of playing time has always been important to me, but I do have a bookkeeper's instinct. My last 8 or so cart's have been in the £2K to £4k bracket, too, which focusses the mind. This is one way of judging cart./stylus life.

However, alignment geometry is also very important in prolonging optimum playing hours. Another, equally important factor is the condition of the records; whether wet-vac cleaned or not.

Koetsus, if looked after, can go for in excess of 2000 hours. Most cart's are good for !000 or so.

The only sure way to determine the state of your cart. is to get it checked out professionally (around £35), though looking at the stylus with a jewellers' loupe or whatever does help; at least to show you whether it needs cleaning !

No hard and fast rules in this arcane world of vinyl and its transducers.
 
The best way is with a microscope. Most styli have a radiused contact area that will progressively become flattened with wear. This shows as a shiny ridge on each playing side of the stylus. The longer the ridge is, the more it is worn. You don't want it to wear to the point (literally) that the two ridges meet.

The other aspect of cartridge wear is in the suspension. A clue might be presented with its ride height with the recommended VTF, but that is more subjective.
 
Neglecting to clean the stylus will greatly reduce it's life (tough lesson to learn).

Microscope to check the stylus is good for MM's but a bit less practical if you have to remove a MC from the arm.

Sibilance and end of side distortion have been indicators of wear for me, confirmed with a look under the microscope at the flats on the stylus as described above. No damage caused as far as I know.
 
jico who make the SAS profile replacement styli, reckon:

1) Round tip profile life 200 hours
2) Ellipical tip profile 150 hours
3) Shibata tip profile 400 hours
4) Special elliptical tip profile 400 hours
5) JICO own SAS tip profile 500 hours

Also an interesting thread here.

Interesting to see that Jico are basing the hours on an increase in measurable high frequency distortion.

I can't find the link at present, but I have a recollection that Expert Stylus reckon their Paratrace tip is good for around 400 hours.

When I used records as my primary source, I'd always notice a significant change when changing the stylus/cartridge after a year of playing 2-3 records a day, so I fear those estimates are probably about right, and a proper wet vacuum clean machine definitely helps keep styli clean, and wear down.

EDIT: I think this might have been the thread I was recalling.
 
Dufour said:
Thanks for responses.

I've imaged my Cartridgeman Musicmaker Classic at X250 which really isn't enough magnification, but quite an interesting picture all the same. It's a Line-contact type, not sure which one of the 5 above it is.

https://postimg.org/image/61uk1iwv0r/
Click to expand...
You need to look at the stylus not front-on, but from its contact side. For MC, that means blu-taking the cart onto the microscope platform upside down, and peering at it as if you are a record groove. 250X mag is plenty to tell the flats.
 
a few years ago once in winter and once in summer logged playing records in the 2 month periods , averaged it out. worked it out for a year .1000 hour plus start to think about changing. stylus putty seems to clean ok .check tracking weight sometimes . record cleaning is vital if you can keep up with,which is a chore
 
Grenadier_45 said:
I can't find the link at present, but I have a recollection that Expert Stylus reckon their Paratrace tip is good for around 400 hours.
Click to expand...
I suppose styli are like tyres.

They are at their best when just run in but before there is any appreciable wear. It might take 1,000 - 4,000 kms to start showing visible wear. But if you take care with alignment, inflation and avoid badly rutted or gravelly surfaces, they will wear more slowly - but wear they will. Some people might feel their tyres get noisy and feel less secure once it's down to 3mm of tread, but it won't do any harm. They're just past their best. Replace at will, but don't leave it until the carcass breaks through.

So how long do tyres last again? Mine typically gets me at least 50,000km before I feel they need replacing for optimal feel, but well before they get to minimum tread depth.
 
Grenadier_45 said:
jico who make the SAS profile replacement styli...

1) Round tip profile life 200 hours
2) Ellipical tip profile 150 hours
3) Shibata tip profile 400 hours
4) Special elliptical tip profile 400 hours
5) JICO own SAS tip profile 500 hours
...
Click to expand...

Really ? I'm glad I got rid of my turntable. At that level of wear it would mean a new stylus every few months or so - expensive !!
 
A little like tyres perhaps in that the problem with specifying a life of x hours is that it's not all that useful without knowing what criteria are, and what the conditions of use are.

Jico are at least helpful in that they state it's the point at which distortion at 15kHz exceeds 3%. But even then, we don't know what state they expect the records to be in - freshly cleaned/averagely dusty/car boot filthy.

2000 hours in my experience is very optimistic in terms of sound quality, but then I'm very sensitive to slurred 'sss' sounds and mistracking. Perhaps those kind of outer limits are the point past which greatly increased record wear/damage is likely.

Van del Hul reckons 3000 hours is possible from his cartridges. (Link goes to a pdf on the vdh site)

I find it tough to believe there's a factor of 8 possible between good stylus profiles, unless there's a difference in definition between what constitutes worn.
 
koi said:
New Zyx cartridges 2000 hrs as quoted on THEIR website
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Yes, and I believe that higher end styli do have a minimum life of 1000hours; stands to reason that the more you pay (and the better the cart.), the more attention to stylus finish/polish.

If you think about it, 200 to 400 hours is ludicrously low for ANY stylus, though cheaper mov. magnets may fall within those parameters, simply because of the easy and cheap replacements for them. A moving coil is a different kettle of fish, and demands a lot more accuracy in manufacture; hence their being the most expensive, with one or two exceptions.
 
Some of the significant factors are things reviews rarely talk much about these days: tip mass, compliance, and playing forces.

I've been using the same few V15/III stylii for *decades* because Shure original replacements aren't available. I've sent them to be checked, and they get a clean bill of health. They also look fine under a microscope here, and sound fine.

Low tip mass, high compliance, low playing down/side force. => low wear.
 
Grenadier_45 said:
1) Round tip profile life 200 hours
2) Ellipical tip profile 150 hours
3) Shibata tip profile 400 hours
4) Special elliptical tip profile 400 hours
5) JICO own SAS tip profile 500 hours
Click to expand...

That has to be nonsense. £500 for a cartridge and it only lasts 150 hours (~100 LPs)? I'm way over that in the first 6 months and sound quality is outstanding still.

As with a lot of audio foo let's just say I'm happy to take the risk and won't be throwing the Ortofon away any time soon.
 
Marketing speak for 'our styluses last far longer than others' ?

jico who make the SAS profile replacement styli, reckon:

1) Round tip profile life 200 hours
2) Ellipical tip profile 150 hours
3) Shibata tip profile 400 hours
4) Special elliptical tip profile 400 hours
5) JICO own SAS tip profile 500 hours
Click to expand...

Interesting that Ortofon have a different view completely,maybe Jico are more concerned over sales ??

1.2. Stylus lifetime

With proper care we find that up to 1000 hours is possible without degradation of performance. The stylus does begin to exhibit changes after 1.000 hours, but the stylus life as a whole is expected to top 2.000 hours.

Proper care comprises the following:

Cleaning of record by means of fibre brush before and after every use. Cleaning of record by using record cleaning machine once in a while.
Cleaning of stylus by means of a fine antistatic brush. Please remember to remove dust from the diamond tip before and after playback of each record. Use the brush in the forward direction from the rear of the cartridge towards the stylus tip and never from stylus tip to the rear of the cartridge and never from side to side.
Proper adjustment of antiskating, azimuth and tracking force.
Click to expand...


Or from SHURE.

The stylus tip lasts between 800 and 1,000 hours of playing time.

The stylus bushing is an elastic material, and can harden over the years, even when not used. The audible symptom is lack of bass, and/or mistracking.
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Or from Audio Technica.

(3) Lifetime of the replacement stylus is approx. 300 to 500 hours for Conical, 300 hours for Elliptical, 1000 hours for MicroLine®, and 800 hours for Shibata and
Special Line Contact.
Click to expand...

The internet is a fabulous resource so long as you don't just believe the first thing you see.
 
When vinyl was king, a cart would last me a couple of years - like output valves, so about 2,000 hours and they were often pretty ropey by the end. Now I get at least twice that - about 4 years - so I guess digital has been good for stylus life! Whether the diamond gives out first or the suspension I have never been sure, though I note some people claim old Linn carts still work after decades - not on my records they don’t. Not a fan of retips.
 
If undamaged, and you lept it clean, then 1000 hours is fairly typical. I don't think that there are magic cartridges which wear far slower than this,. Any profile will have contact points, and diamond wears as diamond wears, so the contact points will wear as other profiles do. OFC it may be that someprofiles sound different as they wear, others less so. The Jilco chart looks to me very much like the scientific research done in house by a company selling replacements. Pinch of salt time.
If I play about ten albums a week, then a cartridge lasts 2 years.
 
The wear comes with the frictional forces. Thus the lower the tip mass and the higher the compliance, the lower the rate of wear.

And as back in the days of shellac and metal 'needles' the intial tendency of the wear can be to make a *better* shape of contact area if the original shape was OK.

There may be an analogy here with a story from the days when BR had railway works. They kept bringing in wheelsets to fit new metal 'tyres' that had the standard conical-section shape. Then when higher speed trains arrived they found that allowing some wear to give a slight concave produced *less* hunting at speed. So in practice, wear can sometimes initially be a good thing as it can 'polish into shape'.
 
Colonel_Mad said:
That has to be nonsense. £500 for a cartridge and it only lasts 150 hours (~100 LPs)?
Click to expand...

I think the maths is a bit out. Even allowing as much as 45 minutes per LP, 150 hours is 200 LPs.

I'm working on 1000 hours of use before worrying about replacement, which is going to be approximately 1400 well looked after and cleaned LPs.
 
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