Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
I have it here Rag, I managed to get hold of some Vibranium, the same material that Captain America's shield is made from, because it is so rare it is expensive though, PM for details.
Keith
Keith
Power Cables. Are they overhyped?
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Can you elaborate, please? I don't follow.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
Your first statement is true when taken as an absolute in isolation. However it may well be that in many cases the 'degrading' is either inaudible, or irrelevantly small, or even correctable. So such sweeping statements don't really help us much in practice.
Your second statement may also be felt to miss the practical target as the point would be to make and use cables whose 'degradation' was either too small to be noticed, or too small to bother about if all you want to do is really enjoy music rather than worry about cables.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
Altering the level of bass can also affect hearing because the receptors in your ear for the mid and hf also experience the lf. Plus, of course, the before-conscious pre-processing our brain does to turn what the receptors send into what he 'hear'.
This is also why tonal balance is affected by the overall level and why slightly louder tends to sound slightly 'better' even when not noticed as actually being louder.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
That's a lovely example of the technobollocks some vendors or makers spew to impress marks! They clearly know they are talking technobollocks as their wording carefully skates around denying that *all* cables which carry electronic signals do so using both electric and magnetic fields. If they clearly denied that and claimed they were magically unique their claims could be shot down via a glance an undergrad textbook. So they just sort of leave judgement to the reader...
Lee T
pfm Member
I totally agree with all of this, especially the last part.Your first statement is true when taken as an absolute in isolation. However it may well be that in many cases the 'degrading' is either inaudible, or irrelevantly small, or even correctable. So such sweeping statements don't really help us much in practice.
Your second statement may also be felt to miss the practical target as the point would be to make and use cables whose 'degradation' was either too small to be noticed, or too small to bother about if all you want to do is really enjoy music rather than worry about cables.
As Kieth often points out, the "sound" that a cable makes upon a system, the effect on the signal, can be altered during manufacture, this is what I was really getting at, someone above pointed out that some use them as tone controls, I agree with this.
I am yet to encounter an interconnect cable, especially, that alters the sound to a large degree, there are differences, but most are subtle, speaker cables, I have found, can have a larger impact.
Saying all that, going from a bellwire giveaway interconnect that came free with my Rega cd player to a Chord Cobra was not so subtle in terms of detail & definition but most well designed cables blend into insignificance after 10 minutes of listening IME.
I honestly doubt anyone would be able to discern a difference, blind, if a 5 minute gap were left between switches of interconnect in a group of well designed cables, making any difference irrelevant.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Most interconnects that I've tried make no audible difference. But then my gear is designed to help ensure that's the case by having excellent grounding and shielding and psrr that's off the hook. Now I'm all balanced apart from my phono stage that's even more the case.
Lee T
pfm Member
Not all own high end gear, in fact, few do, the majority own budget to md price gear, which is built to a price, not all can be designed to the standard of the high end, this needs to be taken into consideration.
Yes it can be designed to a certain level of sophistication but will always have limitations in the area you mention, they just do, right or wrong & why lots of people hear differences with interconnect cables I believe.
I would imagine no amp is immune to changes in cabling, even the high end, it's then down to the user, some just perish at the thought that a cable may change the sound as there are so many alternatives out there, it's too scary to contemplate, so the obvious happens, bias towards not hearing as some are biased towards wanting to hear.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
If an amp or any component is susceptible to cable changes then it is simply not fit for purpose and should be thrown away.
Keith
Keith
mattgbell
Help the elderly and unwell!
Why not spend the money on a better amp then?
Hello SQ, interesting point - how technically would the excellent grounding make a difference do you think (I'm sure it does by the way), when I asked about the benefit of a low impedance 'Earth' (especially low impedance to higher frequencies) I was told by BE that this was just a safety issue!
Cheers. Bill
Paul Mc
pfm Member
I love that Keith is better qualified than people who actually design and produce stuff.
Lee T
pfm Member
I do when possible, but not all are able to purchase high end hifi where price isn't a constraint.
It's akin to someone stating they own a cheap old car, buy a jag then.
Colin L
High-tech low-life
Keith, Ive always sensed you are prone to statements, as above, which are a more than a bit OTT. Then I read your website which goes completely OTT over the Kii three's.
I heard the Kii's on Friday and now understand that I can safely ignore pretty much anything you say. What a relief. Shrill, nasty, head ache inducing noise machines. But I suppose, like the Devialet Phantom which is cut from the same cloth, they are the latest fad, so you jump on that trend and try to flog them to the gullible.
Lee T
pfm Member
Please explain to all, the science behind this post.
Would you use a bellwire speaker cable from maplins, you know the stuff that comes with a cheap micro, with a 5 grand amp to 25 grand speakers, if the cable has zero effect as you state, why use anything else, it transmits the signal, the amp will be immune to anything better in your opinion.
My Rega amp is quite susceptible to speaker cable changes, it sounds wonderful BTW, it will not be entering the bin anytime soon.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
In most walks of life it is much easier to criticise than to do.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
He's right though. Anyone trying to sell you a fancy power cable oven a decent spec mass produced iec is a charlatan.
Bill, I have two sets of Amps, a Muse model 200 that will spit and crackle if I move cables around and hums and buzzes from the speakers. It's been serviced in the past five years and measures to spec, it's just poorly designed with bad wiring that picks up all sorts of noise.
My other power amps are Tom Christians mod86p parallel amps. These are strewn across the floor with all sorts of poor cable layout, my laziness, but the circuit is balanced and has over 90db of PSRR. It's utterly silent at my typical max listening level.
One is designed well, one isn't.
I build a lot of phono stages. And am very careful with wiring layout and earth connection quality. It makes all the difference in the world to measured noise and hum.
Bill, I have two sets of Amps, a Muse model 200 that will spit and crackle if I move cables around and hums and buzzes from the speakers. It's been serviced in the past five years and measures to spec, it's just poorly designed with bad wiring that picks up all sorts of noise.
My other power amps are Tom Christians mod86p parallel amps. These are strewn across the floor with all sorts of poor cable layout, my laziness, but the circuit is balanced and has over 90db of PSRR. It's utterly silent at my typical max listening level.
One is designed well, one isn't.
I build a lot of phono stages. And am very careful with wiring layout and earth connection quality. It makes all the difference in the world to measured noise and hum.
Quite right, the ability to see, hear or become aware of something, understanding it's true nature, insight. (oxford)
Perception is insight, if you hear the difference in cable changes you are insightful.
How about that?
Mr ED
mattgbell
Help the elderly and unwell!
No, my point was that the money spent on cables could be better spent on a better amp.
As I pointed out upstream, people are tempted to spend on cables because the cost per set of cables is relatively small (compared to a new amp or speakers). But if you tot up what people spend on cables over, say, 5 years, the total might well be the difference between a good amp and a better amp.
Buying after-market cables is a classic case of short-term thinking.
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