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£20 Behringer, £1250 Naim V1, £1800 Linn Majik DS-Eff all in it.

JemHayward said:
To the OP - well done for comparing stuff at different price points, and for not assuming that expensive stuff is inherently better - it would be illuminating if the magazines did the same...

I "upgraded" my Linn DS by adding a Behringer DEQ2496 as the DAC, and swapped the DS for a Squeezebox Touch as there was absolutely no difference between the two as streamers into the same DAC and the family like the SBT interface. Behringer make their stuff in China, sell in huge quantities and the quality is pretty variable, and I suspect there are variations in sound quality between different production runs, but if you have a good one, it should be pretty close to the Linn and the Naim, but they are built by expensive UK labour, have cases that cost more in materials alone than the Behringer costs complete, have a dealer margin built in to the price and are much nicer objects to own, and show off to friends.

I think we are in a really great time in home music reproduction, as there is some stuff that works well at really cheap prices, and there are some gorgeous luxuries if you want, and can afford them.

No-one gets mocked for buying a Rolex that tells the same time as a Swatch, and we should admit to ourselves that we enjoy the equipment (for those that do...) as well as the music.

I know a chap who attends classical music performances at least a dozen times a year, will travel abroad to hear particular conductors interpret his favourites, and has a hifi system in is house that sounds frankly awful. He's fully aware of that fact, but he says that he knows how to work it, and its only there to remind him of the music, not try to reproduce the same experience at home, which he feels is a completely daft idea!
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Excellent post sir!
My wife has the same view as the friend you mention!
 
When I decided I fancied trying streaming music into my hifi I went through a range of potential solutions from an iPod via the Wadia digital dock into my existing Goldmund DAC, Metric Halo pro ADC/DAC at 2 levels of price, a Weiss firewire DAC, a Resolution Audio Cantata and a Linn Klimax DS.
I had them all at home for considerable periods and listened to a wide variety of music. I compared at matched volume levels.

Given the large range of prices I would tend to agree with the OP, the differences between these units was very small. I could tell the difference, and my preference was for the Cantata, but the differences were truly tiny compared to, say, 2 pickup cartridges.
Certainly, once the difference was noticed losing it was more noticeable than noticing it in the first place.

The Cantata and the Linn had cases which probably cost more to machine than the total cost of either of the pro units.
The best value for money was the cheapest, since the differences really were minimal, the smallest of -any- of the careful comparisons I have made at home since first discovering an unexpected difference in SQ between 2 amps back in the 70s stopped me buying anything without extended home demo.
 
F1eng said:
When I decided I fancied trying streaming music into my hifi I went through a range of potential solutions from an iPod via the Wadia digital dock into my existing Goldmund DAC, Metric Halo pro ADC/DAC at 2 levels of price, a Weiss firewire DAC, a Resolution Audio Cantata and a Linn Klimax DS.
I had them all at home for considerable periods and listened to a wide variety of music. I compared at matched volume levels.

Given the large range of prices I would tend to agree with the OP, the differences between these units was very small. I could tell the difference, and my preference was for the Cantata, but the differences were truly tiny compared to, say, 2 pickup cartridges.
Certainly, once the difference was noticed losing it was more noticeable than noticing it in the first place.

The Cantata and the Linn had cases which probably cost more to machine than the total cost of either of the pro units.
The best value for money was the cheapest, since the differences really were minimal, the smallest of -any- of the careful comparisons I have made at home since first discovering an unexpected difference in SQ between 2 amps back in the 70s stopped me buying anything without extended home demo.
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Exactly my experience. I'd be fooling myself if I stated I could reliably tell the difference between a Klimax DS & a bog standard SB.

I bought my DS fully aware that I could get virtually identical sound quality for a about a fiftieth of the price.

I bought the linn because it is a bonny, bonny looking beast, I like looking at it & I like owning it.

When I see interminable threads about the really big differences people claim between a Maplins DAC an audiophool special, I just smile inwardly.



Chris
 
I've not read this whole thread, but thought i'd put forward my feelings on the original post.

I own a TEAC UD-H01 dac, which at the time, cost me the princely sum of £150, due to a half price offer at richer sounds. I was curious about it, and thought i'd give the whole async USB thing a try.

For a bit of a reality check, and because I seemed to be oddly impressed with it, I decided to take it to my friends house and compare it to his £1100 Eastern Electronics DAC.

EVen through, what is undoubtedly a hugely resolving system (the Klipsch Palladium P39F's don't miss much) there really was absolutely nothing in it. The very very slight sense that possibly there was a little more air around the treble sounds on the EE dac, but suspect we were both looking for a reason to justify it's existence.

Result for me, is that I've stopped worrying about my source, content that I'm getting all I need from it for now.

I'll revisit the situation if/when DAC technolgy decides to take another small leap onwards.
 
Mescalito said:
Molee,

I have a Klimax DSM. It sounds marvelous. I also have a couple of SB's. They too sound marvelous. I would be hard pushed to differentiate between them on a blind listening test, I'm sure.

When buying the DSM, I was perfectly aware that the differences between streamers is vanishingly small & largely imaginary. I chose to buy the DSM on grounds other than sound quality.
Chris
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On what grounds did you make your decision then?
 
molee said:
Like the title says really. Went into hifi shop to dem a possible xmas pressy. Listened to one track (Bjork-Human Behaviour) on each of them in the above order, stopped the dem and walked out with wallet in pocket. Someone is seriously taking the piss or my ears need syringing. Probably both I suppose.
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What puzzles me is that you walked out of the shop when you could have had 1800 worth of SQ for 20 quid. To my mind that is one hell of a xmas present.
 
shrink said:
I'll revisit the situation if/when DAC technolgy decides to take another small leap onwards.
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Or backwards, maybe. Just listening to an NDF(No Digital Filter) dac, and I find its coherence leaves the other dacs I have sounding murky and confused. I'm overstating the difference, however, if I were to say the others were unlistenable in comparison.
 
molee said:
Like the title says really. Went into hifi shop to dem a possible xmas pressy. Listened to one track (Bjork-Human Behaviour) on each of them in the above order, stopped the dem and walked out with wallet in pocket. Someone is seriously taking the piss or my ears need syringing. Probably both I suppose.
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Molee,

We should all start doing the same, voting with our feet. Before the sales muppets start on with their bull of why it is so much better than CD, Vinyl, A, B, C, X, Y, Z and its flexibility/upgradeability in not only emptying your wallet but your bank account in the very near future.
 
I've just bought a Fiio Taishan from PFM. Can anyone suggest any megabuck DACs I should compare it against?
 
mr sneff said:
On what grounds did you make your decision then?
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The DSM is a lovely looking thing, my experience of the long term reliability of Linn products & a desire to own it.

Roughly the same criteria that made me choose an M5 over an EVO, or a Rolex over a Timex.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
The DSM is a lovely looking thing, my experience of the long term reliability of Linn products & a desire to own it.

Roughly the same criteria that made me choose an M5 over an EVO, or a Rolex over a Timex.

Chris
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Chris, I suspect you may be a Big Issue vendor with aspirations to something better. I could be wrong though.
 
Mescalito said:
The DSM is a lovely looking thing, my experience of the long term reliability of Linn products & a desire to own it.

Roughly the same criteria that made me choose an M5 over an EVO, or a Rolex over a Timex.

Chris
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You have an M5, Chris?

I'm jealous :)
 
did this comparison

no context the NDAC completely trounces the SBT.

if you can't hear the difference between Behringer and DAC V1, the system wasn't able to show you, or something wrong, get hearing test.

the NDAC is able to show very clearly what the bass guitar player is doing, music is much clearer and easier to listen to.

Putting the NDAC is removes all the stress of listening to music. remarkable really. the best source component, only second to NDS or CDS3
 
analogmusic said:
did this comparison

no context the NDAC completely trounces the SBT.

if you can't hear the difference between Behringer and DAC V1, the system wasn't able to show you, or something wrong, get hearing test.

the NDAC is able to show very clearly what the bass guitar player is doing, music is much clearer and easier to listen to.

Putting the NDAC is removes all the stress of listening to music. remarkable really. the best source component, only second to NDS or CDS3
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Try a blind test and see what trounces what then ;)
 
Why don't you try, maxy? You're always banging on about tests, without ever having tried one in your life.

Were you willing to try one yourself, with an open mind, you might be surprised.
 
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