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£20 Behringer, £1250 Naim V1, £1800 Linn Majik DS-Eff all in it.

One other thing to observe. Unless your music collection comprises one track, you have taken an extremely small sample to draw your conclusions. It's rather like asking to take a Mini, a Mercedes and a Maserati our for a test drive, driving them to the edge of the forecourt and making your decisions from that.

A sample of one piece of music played three times in an alien environment and possibly through a system you don't know is a thin gruel upon which to base potentially years of listening pleasure, or displeasure. Unless, that is, your pleasure is defined by your wallet. That applies whether you gain pleasure from being a spendthrift or a cheapskate - different spacesuits, same farts.
 
Evil Emperor said:
One other thing to observe. Unless your music collection comprises one track, you have taken an extremely small sample to draw your conclusions. It's rather like asking to take a Mini, a Mercedes and a Maserati our for a test drive, driving them to the edge of the forecourt and making your decisions from that.

A sample of one piece of music played three times in an alien environment and possibly through a system you don't know is a thin gruel upon which to base potentially years of listening pleasure, or displeasure. Unless, that is, your pleasure is defined by your wallet. That applies whether you gain pleasure from being a spendthrift or a cheapskate - different spacesuits, same farts.
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Quite! How on earth could you be so stupid?
 
There's a big difference between listening and enjoying music and listening and analysing the sound. I don't know the established timescale but when I've done 'shop dems' or even 'home dems' it takes for some reason about 10 minutes to "get into" the music. New kit, new environment, sitting up like a frightened meerkat, whatever. Then the music starts to make sense and the subtleties become clear. I've done this without the dealer changing the kit or the album, or the room, and it's not a 10-minute more of cable burn-in effect.

So, if you value your listening pleasure, take the time to hear the music and a few tracks over a decent timescale just to make sure your physical and mental bits are receptive.

[Having made your kit choice you'll easily realise day-by-day 'in the first few bars' what it is that you are getting a kick from that equipment and music]
 
MVV said:
Quite! How on earth could you be so stupid?
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Yes, silly me.

I like classical music. If only I'd known that all I had to do was listen to the first bar of Beethoven's Fifth to select the equipment I'll be using for the next 10 years, I could have saved myself all that bother of day after day of comparison.
 
Nick1881 said:
Something's up with your hearing, I had the Behringer and it was poor, though I only used the USB input, maybe the other inputs are ok. Timing was laughably bad using USB.
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If it's the £20 Behringer I'm thinking of, it only has one input - it's a USB DAC.
 
To the OP - well done for comparing stuff at different price points, and for not assuming that expensive stuff is inherently better - it would be illuminating if the magazines did the same...

I "upgraded" my Linn DS by adding a Behringer DEQ2496 as the DAC, and swapped the DS for a Squeezebox Touch as there was absolutely no difference between the two as streamers into the same DAC and the family like the SBT interface. Behringer make their stuff in China, sell in huge quantities and the quality is pretty variable, and I suspect there are variations in sound quality between different production runs, but if you have a good one, it should be pretty close to the Linn and the Naim, but they are built by expensive UK labour, have cases that cost more in materials alone than the Behringer costs complete, have a dealer margin built in to the price and are much nicer objects to own, and show off to friends.

I think we are in a really great time in home music reproduction, as there is some stuff that works well at really cheap prices, and there are some gorgeous luxuries if you want, and can afford them.

No-one gets mocked for buying a Rolex that tells the same time as a Swatch, and we should admit to ourselves that we enjoy the equipment (for those that do...) as well as the music.

I know a chap who attends classical music performances at least a dozen times a year, will travel abroad to hear particular conductors interpret his favourites, and has a hifi system in is house that sounds frankly awful. He's fully aware of that fact, but he says that he knows how to work it, and its only there to remind him of the music, not try to reproduce the same experience at home, which he feels is a completely daft idea!
 
MVV said:
Since the likes of serge and Robert have left there is almost no balance against the people who come here to promote their business. You post a comment and are told your hearing is faulty and you don't know how to listen to music properly or that you are simply not discerning enough by people who mostly sell hi fi.
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Well, compared to some of the more rabidly fanatical subjectivist forums, PF is still reasonably balanced :)
 
One of the big, big problems with digital equipment within the audiophile's world is that the core sound quality frequently bears little relationship to the cost of the kit.

For instance, there are many computer interfaces that are, for all intents and purposes, transparent - that is to say, no audible difference between input and output. Many such interfaces cost less than £300.

What more could you demand of an item of home audio kit than "transparent"?
 
Plutox said:
One of the big, big problems with digital equipment within the audiophile's world is that the core sound quality frequently bears little relationship to the cost of the kit.

For instance, there are many computer interfaces that are, for all intents and purposes, transparent - that is to say, no audible difference between input and output. Many such interfaces cost less than £300.

What more could you demand of an item of home audio kit than "transparent"?
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Hardly a big problem for me. It is a great time for people who like to listen to music at home. Suddenly your money goes a lot further as the source is dealt with for £300.

Thanks Steven.
 
If they were level matched I would expect them to sound more similar.
I just wondered whether all three were auditioned in the same system in the same room.
Keith
 
Don't forget the Behringer UCA202 is not only a DAC, it's a ADC, a headphone amp, and a USB/Toslink converter, all for less than £25. Sounds bloody good too IMHO.
 
I'm not an objectivist , but if you are going to do a/b/c comparisons , you have to level match.

Initially the OP said eff all difference , which I and just about everyone takes as NO difference , then a whole host of you cant hear , then a quick backpedal ..then a load of shite about chinese forced child labour mnfgring vs brit garden shed made stuff .. then subjective/objectivist nonsense ..
Does the UC202 convert USB to optical SPDIF ?
I thought the USB was not an actual input - if it DOES - I will get one , I need a USB to SPDIF convertor
 
Rodney gold said:
I'm not an objectivist , but if you are going to do a/b/c comparisons , you have to level match.

Initially the OP said eff all difference , which I and just about everyone takes as NO difference , then a whole host of you cant hear , then a quick backpedal ..then a load of shite about chinese forced child labour mnfgring vs brit garden shed made stuff .. then subjective/objectivist nonsense ..
Does the UC202 convert USB to optical SPDIF ?
I thought the USB was not an actual input - if it DOES - I will get one , I need a USB to SPDIF convertor
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Yes, only has a USB input, but does convert to Toslink. I'm listening to it now feeding a Bushmaster 2.
 
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