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PISA Tests - UK falls outside of top 20

K

KC Cantiaci

pfm Member
PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) test results have been released and the UK has dropped outside the top 20 in all subjects. East Asia ranks highly and take most of the top 10 slots.

UK ranks 26th for Maths, 23rd for reading and 21st for Science.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25187997

Gove is blaming the previous Labour govt, Tristram Hunt is blaming the ConDems......and on it goes. Gove is saying that we won't see the results of the current educational system changes for circa 10 years.

What do the fishy's think?
 
Since the 1960's, education policy has been geared to an impossible dream, equality of outcome. All that has been achieved in reality is a dumbing down of the whole system so that on paper, more people are achieving reasonable results.

The reality is that the value of the achieved results has become debased.

The PISA results highlight this.

Chris
 
kcdionysus said:
PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) test results have been released and the UK has dropped outside the top 20 in all subjects. East Asia ranks highly and take most of the top 10 slots.

UK ranks 26th for Maths, 23rd for reading and 21st for Science.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25187997

Gove is blaming the previous Labour govt, Tristram Hunt is blaming the ConDems......and on it goes. Gove is saying that we won't see the results of the current educational system changes for circa 10 years.

What do the fishy's think?
Click to expand...

I never realised Shanghai was a separate country.
 
Mescalito said:
Since the 1960's, education policy has been geared to an impossible dream, equality of outcome. All that has been achieved in reality is a dumbing down of the whole system so that on paper, more people are achieving reasonable results.

The reality is that the value of the achieved results has become debased.

The PISA results highlight this.

Chris
Click to expand...

Never mind the 1960s, the problem goes way back to the 19th century when a) the UK delayed introducing compulsory education for decades after other European countries; b) when it was introduced, the various churches were allowed to run their own schools and c) overall control of schools was vested in local authorities. These factors have meant that education has been squabbled over by competing factions, both political and religious, with half-baked 'reforms' being introduced every so often, only to be undone by the next administration.

Even within the Tory party there's been a switch from a move to greater central state control, starting with the national curriculum, to their current approach of ever-greater devolution of authority to individual schools. Meanwhile the poor bloody teachers are left to cope with the ensuing confusion as best they can.
 
Joe Hutch said:
b) when it was introduced, the various churches were allowed to run their own schools
Click to expand...
It is easy to criticise today, over here most kids were taught in schools by priests and nuns up to WWII. Thing is, at that time literacy was much lower, religious personnel happened (for various and not always good reasons) to be literate, and they were usually free of charge. Same thing goes for hospitals. Religious organisations were not always bad and often very useful in a time where there was just no money in people's pockets. I guess society had not many other choices at that time.
 
Cheese said:
It is easy to criticise today, over here most kids were taught in schools by priests and nuns up to WWII. Thing is, at that time literacy was much lower, religious personnel happened (for various and not always good reasons) to be literate, and they were usually free of charge. Same thing goes for hospitals. Religious organisations were not always bad and often very useful in a time where there was just no money in people's pockets. I guess society had not many other choices at that time.
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In fact, the churches resisted compulsory state education for several decades, because they wanted to retain a monopoly on young people's minds (I wonder why?) This would have been less problematic if we had been, say, a wholly CofE country; as it was the Church of England, the RCs and the nonconformists all wanted their 'own' schools, meaning segregation on religious grounds, and a barrier to introducing common standards.
 
Who gives a shit about the 1800's let alone the 1960's, was education policy set 50 years ago and never allowed to be changed?

There is too much emphasis on qualifications and university, we need to convert half the universities to polys and get vocational courses back. It's about time plumbing, building, engineering etc became respected vocations and we stopped thinking that degrees are the ultimate.

Labours insistence on so many going to Uni has fuc*ed generations of kids and employers no longer give any credence to degree qualifications.
 
Just did the PISA maths sample questions and I'm pretty shocked that only 3% of students in the UK get the level 6 questions right. All the questions are very much on applied maths to real world problems, and I think this is where our teaching fails students. I daresay if you asked the same students What is (4+3)*60/(9+6), then many more than 3% would be able to get the correct answer, but the skill that is lacking is taking the facts and turning those facts into the equation.
 
thebiglebowski said:
Who gives a shit about the 1800's let alone the 1960's, was education policy set 50 years ago and never allowed to be changed?

There is too much emphasis on qualifications and university, we need to convert half the universities to polys and get vocational courses back. It's about time plumbing, building, engineering etc became respected vocations and we stopped thinking that degrees are the ultimate.

Labours insistence on so many going to Uni has fuc*ed generations of kids and employers no longer give any credence to degree qualifications.
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Agreed 100%

Can't recall anyone with a Management Studies degree ever having a positive impact on my life. Yet I've needed a plumber on more than one occasion.
 
Actually, I can forgive Labour for most of their wrong headedness, but I will never, ever forgive them for comprehensively f*cking up our education system in the 60's & 70's. They set out and succeeded in destroying the single biggest engine of social mobility this country had, the grammar schools.

Chris
 
On the radio earlier today, commenting on the announcement, Labour’s Tristram Hunt said ‘Lessons must be learnt’.

Really.
 
Mescalito said:
Actually, I can forgive Labour for most of theflexibility adedness, but I will never, ever forgive them for comprehensively f*cking up our education system in the 60's & 70's. They set out and succeeded in destroying the single biggest engine of social mobility this country had, the grammar schools.

Chris
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My father always maintained that a well run comprehensive gave greater flexibility but what did he know, he ran a top rated science department in a grammar school and got plenty of pupils to the top universities.
 
Mescalito said:
Actually, I can forgive Labour for most of their wrong headedness, but I will never, ever forgive them for comprehensively f*cking up our education system in the 60's & 70's. They set out and succeeded in destroying the single biggest engine of social mobility this country had, the grammar schools.

Chris
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And which Education Secretary closed the most grammar schools? Margaret Bloody Thatcher!
 
It will always be the same as long as Tarquins can laugh at their uselessness at maths around the dinner table.
 
It will always be the same as long as Tarquins can snort at their uselessness at maths around the dinner table.
 
I think question 6 is just made up numbers... There's no way she could ride that bike that fast.

Paul
 
Does it really matter and what does a test like this actually prove anything material about how these people will do in later life? It would also be interesting to know what other countries are doing to get better results and whether there is anything we could do to copy their methods.

Interestingly, I had a few colleagues in Singapore (Brits and Australians) who cited the local education system as one of the reasons why they wanted to get out of the country. They felt the focus on long hours and regimented learning meant that their children did not enjoy school, and in the long term this would affect their ability and desire to learn.
 
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