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What's the truth about the LP12?

Its the same as sticking an LP12 on mana therefore evens out

I bought mine new with a good discount. Unfortunately the euro has moved against us so cost is now much higher. The UK distributor also bumped up the price to cover their slice. Second hand they hold their value well.
 
Well I should have a nice little LP12 here this week to have a play with.

I can pitch it up against a deck costing five times as much and decide on the value for money as a music maker for myself. Rather looking forward to being reunited with some old friends this week.
 
Jek said:
Its the same as sticking an LP12 on mana therefore evens out

I bought mine new with a good discount. Unfortunately the euro has moved against us so cost is now much higher. The UK distributor also bumped up the price to cover their slice. Second hand they hold their value well.
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I don't think so. One of the truisms of the LP12 is that it sounds OK on a £50 IKEA table. No doubt it sounds better on a decent platform, but the design doesn't rely on the purchaser also having one.

No doubt Linns are available at a discount off list, too, if you're a canny buyer. We were comparing list prices, weren't we? I don't think saying "I got my £15k Brinkmann for £8k, which makes it miles better value than a £15k Linn" is in any way a valid argument.
 
The Vibraplane, Minus K or similar active isolation tables are one thing. A good deal more effective than a Seismic Sink and a good deal more expensive too. Indeed, if I wanted to acquire a heavyweight, black, beltdrive German TT without any isolation I'd factor such a support into the cost from the outset. (that said, I'd also choose a TW over a Brinkmann every time!)
 
Jek said:
Was it a suspended deck?

I tried TSS stand v mana and the TSS was easily better
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It was a Rock TT not the reference though, but one of the later models , can't remember exactly alas but the fact we both disliked the way it sounded with the sink ? Sticks in the mind .
 
Neither does the BLG rely on it. I would wager it is still better isolated by mass and composite material construction on the Ikea than the lp12. I didn't compare my discounted ten year old price for my BLG with a current list price LP12 that would be silly. The current list price would be about the same as we have seen.

That sounds odd to me given that it is his own deck on his own support!

Of course the more expensive isolation tables are better. Minus k is at least as good as a vibraplane but the BLG is pretty well isolated even on the TSS. Have you compared the raven and BLG side by side?
 
You also have to consider the physics of a motor that has degrees of freedom relative to the rotation of the platter
 
Jek said:
You also have to consider the physics of a motor that has degrees of freedom relative to the rotation of the platter
Click to expand...

That is a different matter altogether. I think the PT Anniversary type solution with the motor mounted on the sub-chassis is optimal in that case.

Having the motor completely free-standing as is the case with the Brinkmann brings its own problems as it leave it to the support to determine if the correct relationship is maintained between the spindle and motor. I see from the set up manual they also leave it to the user to decide where to place the motor, clearly ignoring that belt tension affects speed accuracy and stability! I would want something more precise than that if I was handing over £30k.
 
The two are a coupled issue if you pardon the pun. The Lp12 method introduces more problems that it solves.

Speed stability doesn't vary with tension due to the mass of the platter and inherent flywheel affect plus the feedback control. I checked it myself. It just needs to be under reasonable tension so its not too tight and not too loose.

Speed I set using a test record and racal dana frequency meter. I could get it spot on subject to the inherent eccentricity of the test record but any variation was in the final SF of the meter which I think was +/- 1 hz on 3150 khz. The W&F measurement showed the absolute speed stability was significantly better than that. The Leader LFM-39A W&F meter has 0.03% full scale on max sensitivity and even then the measured deflection from zero point was very low though I don't recall the exact amount. Certainly under 0.01% and probably dominated by test record eccentricity. Trying to dig out a number for that currently.

£16K not £30k.
 
the foot print of contact underneath isn't so big you just have to let the platter jut over the edge of the table
 
Mana reference. Dont hold with that phase 27 nonsense. Bubs speakers are like the leaning tower of pisa!
 
Wow and flutter ±0.008% Signal-to-noise ratio -73dB Eat Forte

That seems pretty good - anyone know of a deck that has better published specs? My measured specs for the BLG were better. Must be the feedback correction and the heated bearing ;)
 
Hmm. I'd like to see some measured speed specs made by the likes of Paul Miller at HFN. Failing that, can you record a 3150 Hz tone & send a link to PaulR? It'd be interesting to see how well the belt & platter mass really does suppress motor chugging. I see Brinkmann have changed the motor to their own Sinus design now that Papst no longer make their original one. Whereas I believe TW and indeed SME are using a different Papst item.
 
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