Kit you regretted buying
- Thread starter James
- Start date
So what does mana mean? People finally making sure their turntables are setup precisely level? Perhaps for the first time? Paying attention to suspension balance and tonearm setup properly and fine-tuning things like pistonic bounce in an lp12 that should have been done irrespective of stand and perhaps were not or had slipped over time so what people hear is a nicely set up lp12 all fresh and minty - not mana.
Speakers on mana are even easier to explain. You raise them and change the off axis response, quite dramatically when you raise them 3 feet off the sodding ground.
I saw customers approach mana with vastly different systems not just naim/lp12 but the one thing they all had in common was it attracts people who want to believe in magical effects.
It had to happen at some point, but Tones was like the little boy in the fable that said the king had no clothes. It was a delicious con... It's a shame though, wouldn't it be great if the physical universe really did impart metallic glassyness on things in contact with metal and glass... And I'm amused this kind of mediaevalism has people still in it's thrall. But I am glad he spoke up as I benefitted from that blast of reality.
Speakers on mana are even easier to explain. You raise them and change the off axis response, quite dramatically when you raise them 3 feet off the sodding ground.
I saw customers approach mana with vastly different systems not just naim/lp12 but the one thing they all had in common was it attracts people who want to believe in magical effects.
It had to happen at some point, but Tones was like the little boy in the fable that said the king had no clothes. It was a delicious con... It's a shame though, wouldn't it be great if the physical universe really did impart metallic glassyness on things in contact with metal and glass... And I'm amused this kind of mediaevalism has people still in it's thrall. But I am glad he spoke up as I benefitted from that blast of reality.
tones
Tones deaf
Joe, my question would be, why should it be any different than any other level, solid support? I have my answer, which is clearly different from yours. It is not my intention to precipitate another Mana war (there have been enough of those in the past) so I'll bow out. I just thought I'd add it to the list, as it was the only bit of hi-fi equipment that was a major disappointment to me. But I learned, and now I don't believe anything about hi-fi!
RustyB
Registered Ginga
Never owned any Mana, but I did assist in the relocation of an up-spec LP12 from a SF Tripod to a Mana wall shelf.
Result was nothing less than a transformation.
I'd suggest that if said exercise doesn't produce the result, questions need to asked about the state of the deck and system in general.
Result was nothing less than a transformation.
I'd suggest that if said exercise doesn't produce the result, questions need to asked about the state of the deck and system in general.
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
tones,
I'm not looking for an argument. I'm just saying I can hear a difference.
John uploaded some needle drops of his LP12 on Mana and another stand (forget which one) and although my socks remained on my feet and my jaw didn't drop several inches, I preferred his deck on Mana. (Actually, I preferred Mana on only two of the three tracks.)
However, it was a much smaller difference than going from Sorcerers to GRFs. That was an A/holy-fukc-B comparison that made me realize I had previously put too much store into trivial upgrades and tweaks.
I never was a full-on Mana nut. Vuk and others bought me a SoundFrame as a wedding gift, JW threw in a used PowerSupply Table (also as a gift), but I did buy the bottom part of a Reference Table from Vuk, which fox used to use to hang chickens on or something.
Joe
I'm not looking for an argument. I'm just saying I can hear a difference.
John uploaded some needle drops of his LP12 on Mana and another stand (forget which one) and although my socks remained on my feet and my jaw didn't drop several inches, I preferred his deck on Mana. (Actually, I preferred Mana on only two of the three tracks.)
However, it was a much smaller difference than going from Sorcerers to GRFs. That was an A/holy-fukc-B comparison that made me realize I had previously put too much store into trivial upgrades and tweaks.
I never was a full-on Mana nut. Vuk and others bought me a SoundFrame as a wedding gift, JW threw in a used PowerSupply Table (also as a gift), but I did buy the bottom part of a Reference Table from Vuk, which fox used to use to hang chickens on or something.
Joe
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
lp12 on wall shelf on stud wall sounds ok but wall shelf onto solid masonry- way better I found
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
In such cases people are predisposed to hearing changes that are not there. We expect something to happen and voilà it happens - especially after lavishing all that setup time and the frisson of new kit to play with. Add long periods of silence on ones knees between setups, taking more care in the mana setup over what was there before. Take your pick. The same psychological mechanisms exist in the cable con artist industry.
If if works for you then great, but it's not real.
If if works for you then great, but it's not real.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
The thing is you can say that but you don't really have any control over it. You like to try and pin things like disaffection on me but dissatisfaction came from John Watson not the stand, and you have to be a bit dim if you cannot separate the two. Its also argumentatively very lazy. If mana really worked I could just weld up a load in stainless and be done with it. I can weld, it's what I can do well.
I heard no change when removing my phase 13 orbe from phase 1 after tones could not hear a difference with his phase 1 setup. No disaffection there, just stark realism. 13 sound stages should do something, it did nothing. Nothing at all. The disaffection came afterwards, but it was tones that started the process of reevaluating and realising it was all a con.
Also at the time I moved from bricks and stealth to atc100 actives (another reason for the fallout) No way was phase 9 bricks and stealth going to come close to atc actives just plonked on the floor. Bricks and mana = Polishing a turd.
As I said it's probably you taking more care in the mana setup that yielded results. A nice levelled lp12 is going to sound great. One that's had a full suspension rebalance and pistonic bearing without wobble will do even more than a stand.
I know people don't like to be told they have been had, and some people will never ever move beyond that, so enjoy your magical stands and all the wonders it brings.
I heard no change when removing my phase 13 orbe from phase 1 after tones could not hear a difference with his phase 1 setup. No disaffection there, just stark realism. 13 sound stages should do something, it did nothing. Nothing at all. The disaffection came afterwards, but it was tones that started the process of reevaluating and realising it was all a con.
Also at the time I moved from bricks and stealth to atc100 actives (another reason for the fallout) No way was phase 9 bricks and stealth going to come close to atc actives just plonked on the floor. Bricks and mana = Polishing a turd.
As I said it's probably you taking more care in the mana setup that yielded results. A nice levelled lp12 is going to sound great. One that's had a full suspension rebalance and pistonic bearing without wobble will do even more than a stand.
I know people don't like to be told they have been had, and some people will never ever move beyond that, so enjoy your magical stands and all the wonders it brings.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
I'm also on record saying that I don't subscribe to the multi-phase dogma. I can understand the lack of difference between Phase 1 and Phase 13 Mana, but did you try your Orbe on a different support and also noted no difference? If so, then perhaps the Orbe is not as sensitive to the LP12 to Mana. That said, your perception is your reality, and so is mine.
James
Yes I moved to finite element pagode after and it was nice to look at but again no different from Mana or sitting on the window-ledge or the floor. Then I tried my diy welded stand from aluminium and then my original steel sound org wall shelf which I went back to and still use to this day with my dads thorens sitting on it.
Let me make this perfectly clear. A good stand is important. You need it to be level and at a comfortable height, and that's, er, it.
Let me make this perfectly clear. A good stand is important. You need it to be level and at a comfortable height, and that's, er, it.
I haven't seen him since I moved to London and then to Sacramento. I think so.
Anwyway I'm baling now. I just wanted to put across the events that led me to ditching mana, which were precipitated by and confirmed by tones. I have no regrets of any of it as I have a killer system, without the need for foo.... I just wished i got to listen to it from time to time.
Anwyway I'm baling now. I just wanted to put across the events that led me to ditching mana, which were precipitated by and confirmed by tones. I have no regrets of any of it as I have a killer system, without the need for foo.... I just wished i got to listen to it from time to time.
but the one thing they all had in common was it attracts people who want to believe in magical effects.
Oh dear God were not going through these arguments again, are we?
Equally the doubters won't here the effects 'cos they don't WANT to!!
Simple!
(hey tones, sorry to cross words with you here btu I just couldn't keep quiet. Apols.)
Oh dear God were not going through these arguments again, are we?
Equally the doubters won't here the effects 'cos they don't WANT to!!
Simple!
(hey tones, sorry to cross words with you here btu I just couldn't keep quiet. Apols.)
