Will the rise of streaming put more tasty disc spinners onto the s/h mkt in 2011?

[TheDecameron]

There are some who would say, "how you play it " is important to the musical experience. Why some prefer the tactile experience of handling vinyl and absorbing the contents of the libretto.

I certainly got/get that with records- I enjoy the handling of them, cover art, notes et al. I never got it from CD. Jewel cases- god they are still doing them rather than cardboard slip cases, the minute writing and the interminable wait for disc drawer, toc reading etc. I would happily forgo that for files any day and keep my records.

 

[__mark__]

Paul Stephenson, Naim, August 2010, "A third of our business is still CD players."

Naim turnover 2010, £15,000,000.

 

[GT]

I have to disagree GT, I haven't heard alls by any means but a fair proportion of the supposed 'best' CDP's and I have found them pretty underwhelming, whilst extremely expensive!
I use an IPad to control my music, I suppose it is a sort of a computer , it's no hardship though ,literally lifting a finger to choose what to play next!
When the majors release their masters on24/96 that will be it for cdp's.
Keith.

Yes Keith, but as you know just because a CD player is expensive doesn’t mean it is good. I had all the top CD players here a few years ago (all the top names) - most had brilliant reviews by the UK mags and the US ones, but they didn't even get close to what I had here. Most were initially impressive but after about 20 minutes you realised they were just "HiFi" and were not playing "music". You can get fantastic results from digital but you need to address the problems of the format and design accordingly.

Regarding the demise of CDP's: Well that is what they said about turntables about 25 years ago. I maybe wrong but it would not surprise me in the least if CD players made a resurgence (see note*) as people lose interest in Computer Audio, just as people did when the novelty of Home Theatre wore off.

Note*: Hi-end audio companies are still making CD players - Accuphase, Wadia, Esoterica, Naim, EMM labs, Lindemann, Audionote etc etc. If there is a demise it would seem to be at the budget and mid-fi end of the market, not the Hi-end.

 

[dave]

I've never thought you were trying Dave. You are unlikely to hear something you don't want to hear. I've had the CDS2 and CDS3 liked them both and owned at least a couple of DACs that I prefer, so keep looking (if you really are interested).

I've never *really* tried very hard. I'm sure if I did it's possible I would eventually find something I like better but at what cost neverminding another software change. Sadly, I'm quite satisfied with CDs. Perhaps I'm not the best example of an audiophile?;-)

Edited to add...I did purchase a SB Touch so I'm part of the New Millennium in some shape or fashion;-)

regards,

dave

 

[Purité Audio]

The CDP's I have had here recently haven't even been immediately impressive, just hugely overpriced mediocre sounding machines , extremely disappointing.
Keith.

 

[TheDecameron]

"Screw around" includes even the initial server setup, file downloading and management as well as maintenance no matter how much or how little. Personally, I think it's healthy to separate the two activities.

The other bonus is my CDP sounds better than any PC-based solution I've heard.

Dave I think it will get there one day in SQ and functionality terms- yet its surprising how long its taking to get there. Ive become a late adopter with old age....so not rushing in yet.

 

[Eric L]

I'm another who got better results from a PC/DAC combo (Lavry DA11). The most 'high end' CDP I owned was a Naim 3.5 + hicap, so not exactly top of the line. Still, the Lavry was a significant improvement.

I'm certain high-end CD prices will keep falling, since there are no doubt many like me who will never buy another CDP, thus removing demand. You guys can have 'em.

Audio quality notwithstanding, in addition to the advantages of a DAC mentioned above (ability to play back at higher resolution, bit-perfect files through error checking software, the ability to put all format types on a single source), here's another: if you have more than one system, you now need only a single source at the second system to play back anything you want, assuming you have the means to record analogue sources. The second system needs only a comparable DAC to get the same quality source playback as in the main system.

Computer/DAC combos are such an obvious improvement that it's fun watching people try to imagine reasons to resist.

 

[Nik]

My parents ripped all their CDs. Not sure where the students got theirs - most likely iTunes or even more likely illegally.

I'm not saying DVD/CD/whatever else combo lasers will be obsolete, I said dedicated CD lasers (non-universal). Most believe that dedicated CD lasers sound far better than universal ones. I've heard several hifi manufacturers say it as well. If that's truly the case, how good will the entry level CDPs with universal lasers in them sound? Maybe hard to follow in text only, but that's my logic for only the high end players will survive.

Sorry. I reread that last bit after I hit send but didn't edit my reply.

I'll tell you what though, anyone who claims that a CD-only laser (and receiver) "sounds better", which can only mean "is better at reading the disc", than a drive that can easily read the higher res of DVD would have to come up with something pretty convincing to support that claim. Anything else is just more audiophile fantasy IMO.

 

[Nik]

This is exactly how I feel after spending thirteen hours a day as part of desktop support in the medical field. For me, streaming is OK for exploring new music sources but normally, the last thing I want during downtime is to screw around with my PC when I simply want to enjoy my music collection.

Depends. I just switch my Kairn to the right input, start up Remote on my iPhone, find the album on the ATV and hit play. In no way is this harder than using a CDP (unless you always play the same album and leave it in the drawer).

 

[dave]

Depends. I just switch my Kairn to the right input, start up Remote on my iPhone, find the album on the ATV and hit play. In no way is this harder than using a CDP (unless you always play the same album and leave it in the drawer).

LOL...my problem will be obsessing over getting the most out of the hardware and software which puts me back on a damn keyboard. At least with Old School Hifi, I'm using a spanner and screwdrivers which is somewhat of a break;-)

 

[dave]

I'm another who got better results from a PC/DAC combo (Lavry DA11). The most 'high end' CDP I owned was a Naim 3.5 + hicap, so not exactly top of the line. Still, the Lavry was a significant improvement.

I'm certain high-end CD prices will keep falling, since there are no doubt many like me who will never buy another CDP, thus removing demand. You guys can have 'em.

Audio quality notwithstanding, in addition to the advantages of a DAC mentioned above (ability to play back at higher resolution, bit-perfect files through error checking software, the ability to put all format types on a single source), here's another: if you have more than one system, you now need only a single source at the second system to play back anything you want, assuming you have the means to record analogue sources. The second system needs only a comparable DAC to get the same quality source playback as in the main system.

Computer/DAC combos are such an obvious improvement that it's fun watching people try to imagine reasons to resist.

I guess we're all just different with what trips our trigger. For me, a friend's Macbook Pro/ Lavry DA10(?) was a let down compared to my CD3.5.

Hi-rez test files from Linn and some Naim sample files played back through my Touch were a huge disappointment compared to my CDS2. Others have said they like the Touch as well as their 555. Go figure...

 

[dave]

Dave I think it will get there one day in SQ and functionality terms- yet its surprising how long its taking to get there. Ive become a late adopter with old age....so not rushing in yet.

D,

I fully understand and agree that it's just a matter of time. Funny, it reminds me of the early seventies when MC carts were resurfacing. The early ones were crude sonically in many ways yet there was an undeniable transparency with 'em that made all the MMs of the day sound like they were pumping sound through grandpa's wool overcoat;-)

Despite my negative comments earlier about the Touch in comparison to my CDS2, it might be a good place to start investigating this streaming thing considering its price if you're interested. It challenges the CDS in a few areas like tonal "colour" and maybe less high frequency distortion but it sounds mechanical, compressed and lifeless by comparison. Inevitably, I switch back over to the CDS for the duration of a listening session.

regards,

dave

 

[jackbarron]

Would you say it was a real, repeatable difference and, if so, why would lt exist if you are using the same DAC?

How do you rate the Beresford?

I think the difference existed, but it was a quick demo. It also appeared to be repeatable.

The Beresford I've got is the older TC - 7510. It cost me £100 a couple of years ago and works well.

The Caiman is obviously better but costs more.

I will change the Beresford later this year.

Certainly the DAC in the 8200CDQ seemed to be far more accomplished in what it sets out to do.

Jack

 

[manicatel]

Last year, I sold my CDX2/XPS2 & bought a mac-mini/Lavry/ipad/Pure Music to replace it.
I knew that one day I would be looking to upgrade the CDX2, & going to a CDS3 would be a significant outlay. I decided to move on from a CD based system whilst the prices were reasonably healthy & I do think that 2nd hand prices for players like these will drop further.
Whether thats true or not remains to be seen I guess, but in the mean time I can say that using the Mac/Dac with ipad means that I haven't missed the CDP at all.
Matt.

 

[Eric L]

I guess we're all just different with what trips our trigger

Yep.

In the end, a level-balanced comparison in your own system is the only way to know with certainty.

Everything else is a compromise.

 

[wiresandmore]

This is exactly how I feel after spending thirteen hours a day as part of desktop support in the medical field. For me, streaming is OK for exploring new music sources but normally, the last thing I want during downtime is to screw around with my PC when I simply want to enjoy my music collection.

Err... this beggars belief - I have to *touch* a screen a couple of times and I can choose any track I want from 1000+ albums. It's probably less work than manually selecting a CD. It's a million miles from screwing around with a PC (I work with them 12 hours a day too!).

Most critical question for me is how many people have got to a well-set up streaming solution and then said "oh right, sod it, the CD system was far better in the end" and jacked in the streaming option. Not many, I'd venture.

Anyway, each to their own....

 

[dave]

Err... this beggars belief - I have to *touch* a screen a couple of times and I can choose any track I want from 1000+ albums. It's probably less work than manually selecting a CD. It's a million miles from screwing around with a PC (I work with them 12 hours a day too!).

Most critical question for me is how many people have got to a well-set up streaming solution and then said "oh right, sod it, the CD system was far better in the end" and jacked in the streaming option. Not many, I'd venture.

Anyway, each to their own....

How much time did you spend loading those 1000+ albums on your hard drive and creating backups and tweaking software and...?

 

[Greg]

Yes. Streaming has an established meaning, for both local and wide area networks. Direct connection is something else.

so the snappy name in this thread for directly connected to and streamed from computer is?

 

[Batty]

My CDP has already left the building

 

[Basil]

"Screw around" includes even the initial server setup, file downloading and management as well as maintenance no matter how much or how little. Personally, I think it's healthy to separate the two activities.

The other bonus is my CDP sounds better than any PC-based solution I've heard.

I can only comment as far as setting up a squeezebox, but there was no 'initial server setup'.

It took about 10 minutes to get it up and running, 5 minutes of that was entering my alpha-numeric network code.

I fully accept ripping several hundred CDs onto a HDD was quite an effort, but once done, it just works!