Will the rise of streaming put more tasty disc spinners onto the s/h mkt in 2011?

[Nik]

A few months ago, I listened to some music on the new Audiolab 8200CDQ.

First some tunes were put on the CD player.

They were then played as digital files from a laptop via the CDQ's DAC.

The DAC tracks were excellent, although very slightly different in sound to the CD tunes.

The listening session lasted half an hour and John W kindly used the time to demonstrate the capabilities of the CDQ.

I think I preferred it when the CD player was being used, but it was a close call.

I look forward to comparing the two again.

I plan to keep a CD player and a DAC.

At the moment I have got a Naim CD player and a Beresford DAC. I expect this will change.

Jack

Would you say it was a real, repeatable difference and, if so, why would lt exist if you are using the same DAC?

How do you rate the Beresford?

 

[Nik]

Streaming means over a (telecommunications) network. When you playback from you computer its not necessarily streaming. There has to be some sort of network/protocol in place. A PC connected to a DAC connected to speakers is not streaming.

Streaming is a bag of pain.

I agree that the term "streaming" is often misused in this way, but can someone come up with a snappy alternative? "HDD-based audio" or "computer-based audio" seem a bit clunky. (Some call it "digital audio" but that is unhelpful as it includes CD.)

Why is streaming a bag of pain? Is it because of dropouts or some other reason?

 

[Nik]

is that point worth making, really?

It's not CD playback is it so "streaming" or "computer-based" is a decent way of describing the difference in terms of the broader formats, surely.

Our of interest, what would your own catchy word/phrase be? (or would you really sub-divide network streamed apart from directly connected)?

Yes. Streaming has an established meaning, for both local and wide area networks. Direct connection is something else.

 

[Nik]

For most people plugging and iPod into an ipod dock/speaker is about as far as it goes. iPod speakers outsell everything else by a very large margin.

I doubt the predominance of iPod speakers will have an effect on high end SH CDPs.

iPod speaker docks have pretty much replaced the CD boombox, which replaced the cassette boombox. Different market altogether to hi-fi separates, as you say.

 

[Nik]

for me the added value would be in simple convenience but as Mick said, if you have a top notch cdp and a lot of discs the likliehood of abandoning them is low

Why would you abandon the discs? They become the source for your computer-based audio, and serve as a backup too.

Unless you mean hi-res audio, which is a whole other thing and looks unlikely to become mass-market any time soon.

 

[Nik]

And apart from a few geeks like us, there are very few people buying CD players any more. Working at a college and having a CDP boom box in my office/room where students are welcome to bring in their music, I haven't seen a CD in at least 5 years. More like 7. I've asked a number of them just to guage the CD market, and I always get 'No one listens to CDs anymore.' 'I don't own any CDs.' Even my parents who love music but aren't hifi people by any means abandoned CD players. They ripped all their CDs to iTunes and use iPods. In the house, in the car, and on the go. I haven't asked where their CDs are though. So it's not just college students and younger kids.

If the mass market abandons CD players for good, the laser manufacturers will abandon making them too. No lasers from them means the hifi manufacturers will have to make their own. Very costly on a very low scale. Someone will, and the CDPs will have to be very expensive, eliminating the budget sector of CDPs.

Or they'll all use universal lasers, which many people believe they don't sound as good as CD only lasers.

I note that you said "ripped all their CDs". They didn't download the music; they used what they already had. Do they still buy music on CD, even if those CDs never see the inside of a CDP? I do.

A couple of years ago Apple said that only about 3% of music in iTunes libraries worldwide was bought from the iTunes Store. Allowing for some MP3 from other sources, the vast majority is from CD. Is there any reason that should change?

Computers will continue to have CD/DVD drives for a while yet, so why would CDP makers be unable to source the lasers?

 

[Stu_cj]

Nik and Stu I think your both right, the distinction being the age of music consumer...
Under 20's are almost exclusively getting their music (often illegally) via downloads and not buying physical media (i.e.CD's) although there is a minor resurgence in vinyl amonst the young.
The older consumers are still buying at least some of their music on CD from supermarkets, HMV(on the decline) and the likes of Amazon etc, as well as legal downloads. However many of the non-audiophile people in this category are then ripping to i-tunes and then using i-pods and increasingly smartphones for playback by earphones or docks.
I spoke to a chap at work the other day in this latter category (50 y.o) who wanted to play his i-tunes collection though loudspeakers without using his i-phone as the source. We work for a technical company but he wasn't aware of music streamers even existing as such, only i-pod docks. I mentioned things like airport expresses and squeezeboxes and he looked blank and grimaced at needing to spend more than £100 to achieve this function

So actually I reckon it's only geeks like us that still use CD players or streaming, the masses use neither.

To get back to the OP, yes there will be more tasty CDP's going "cheaply" as audiophiles migrate from old technology to new technology. I've already noticed 2nd hand Naim CD5x's and CDX2's dropping in price significantly...

 

[stu pitt]

I note that you said "ripped all their CDs". They didn't download the music; they used what they already had. Do they still buy music on CD, even if those CDs never see the inside of a CDP? I do.

A couple of years ago Apple said that only about 3% of music in iTunes libraries worldwide was bought from the iTunes Store. Allowing for some MP3 from other sources, the vast majority is from CD. Is there any reason that should change?

Computers will continue to have CD/DVD drives for a while yet, so why would CDP makers be unable to source the lasers?

My parents ripped all their CDs. Not sure where the students got theirs - most likely iTunes or even more likely illegally.

I'm not saying DVD/CD/whatever else combo lasers will be obsolete, I said dedicated CD lasers (non-universal). Most believe that dedicated CD lasers sound far better than universal ones. I've heard several hifi manufacturers say it as well. If that's truly the case, how good will the entry level CDPs with universal lasers in them sound? Maybe hard to follow in text only, but that's my logic for only the high end players will survive.

 

[GT]

I can't help thinking that streaming in its current form is just another means of presenting the same information yet again, without adding any value in particular.

Well some will say that it adds convenience. Personally I think it removes another element that makes playing your music special.

As I have said before, a lot of people spend the whole of their working day in front of a computer. The last thing they want to do when they get home is to use one for selecting their music and entertainment. This has been repeatedly told to me by a large number of my customers. Obviously there will be others who will have a different view.

 

[Basil]

Well some will say that it adds convenience. Personally I think it removes another element that makes playing your music special.

But it's the music itself that's important, not how you play it.

 

[dave]

...As I have said before, a lot of people spend the whole of their working day in front of a computer. The last thing they want to do when they get home is to use one for selecting their music and entertainment. This has been repeatedly told to me by a large number of my customers...

This is exactly how I feel after spending thirteen hours a day as part of desktop support in the medical field. For me, streaming is OK for exploring new music sources but normally, the last thing I want during downtime is to screw around with my PC when I simply want to enjoy my music collection.

 

[GT]

Greg Hi, wel we have had nearly every hi-end cdp here, Naim555, Meridian 808, EMM Labs xds1. ,DCS etc, a Mac DAC has been easily as good if not better than all of them, obviously depends upon the DAC.
Computer audio is no longer the poor cousin sound wise.
Keith.

My experience is just the opposite. Yes, computer audio is getting better but a really good CD player or CD player and DAC gives a much more satisfying musical experience than any PC/Mac connected to a DAC will.

As "Greg" has said there are CD players and there are CD players. A Marantz CD7 for example will be very hard to beat and there are only a handful of CD players better than the CD7.

 

[Basil]

This is exactly how I feel after spending thirteen hours a day as part of desktop support in the medical field. For me, streaming is OK for exploring new music sources but normally, the last thing I want during downtime is to screw around with my PC when I simply want to enjoy my music collection.

Where's it written in stone that you need to 'screw around with my PC' to listen to music?

Mine is upstairs, I've been listening for the last three hours plus and haven't been near it.


I'd have thought not having to get up to change sides every 20 minutes is of greater value after a long day at work.

 

[prowla]

Well some will say that it adds convenience. Personally I think it removes another element that makes playing your music special.

That is my opinion too.

 

[GT]

But it's the music itself that's important, not how you play it.

There are some who would say, "how you play it " is important to the musical experience. Why some prefer the tactile experience of handling vinyl and absorbing the contents of the libretto.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have to disagree GT, I haven't heard alls by any means but a fair proportion of the supposed 'best' CDP's and I have found them pretty underwhelming, whilst extremely expensive!
I use an IPad to control my music, I suppose it is a sort of a computer , it's no hardship though ,literally lifting a finger to choose what to play next!
When the majors release their masters on24/96 that will be it for cdp's.
Keith.

 

[dave]

Where's it written in stone that you need to 'screw around with my PC' to listen to music?

Mine is upstairs, I've been listening for the last three hours plus and haven't been near it.

"Screw around" includes even the initial server setup, file downloading and management as well as maintenance no matter how much or how little. Personally, I think it's healthy to separate the two activities.

The other bonus is my CDP sounds better than any PC-based solution I've heard.

 

[SteveS1]

First we had people claiming there was a sonic improvement to spinning music files on a plastic disc, now feeding one into a machine makes playing your music 'special'. You really couldn't make it up.

It's choice peeps. There are DACs and streamers that will resolve CD music files to the same high standard of the very best CD players, so everyone's a winner! But you might lose that romance of sticking a plastic disc in a slot/tray. Maybe you can shove one in the CD ROM to keep the 'magic' alive.

 

[dave]

First we had people claiming there was a sonic improvement to spinning music files on a plastic disc, now feeding one into a machine makes playing your music 'special'. You really couldn't make it up.

It's choice peeps. There are DACs and streamers that will resolve CD music files to the same high standard of the very best CD players, so everyone's a winner! But you might lose that magic romance of sticking a plastic disc in a slot/tray. Maybe you can shove one in the CD ROM to keep the 'magic' alive.

No "special" or "magic" noticed here, just better sound. I look forward to the day when I find a PC-based solution I prefer sonically, I'm just not looking forward to managing another system.

 

[SteveS1]

No "special" or "magic" noticed here, just better sound. I look forward to the day when I find a PC-based solution I prefer sonically, I'm just not looking forward to managing another system.

I've never thought you were trying Dave. You are unlikely to hear something you don't want to hear. I've had the CDS2 and CDS3 liked them both and owned at least a couple of DACs that I prefer, so keep looking (if you really are interested).