War declared, Israel v Palestine...

[vacuum_tubes]

I don’t agree, I’m certainly not buying the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ thing. Monsters can always be assessed on their own merits. I can’t even endorse the UK Labour party FFS as they are far too socially conservative and authoritarian for me. Do you honestly see me supporting Hamas?!

Don't care who you support, this isn't a local thing so don't bring the labour party into it.

It's just my view, I've already said it's not nice but this is a nasty, dirty fight so without any support the "morals" and other reservations should go out the window,

 

[russel]

One result will be that given the extreme cruelty and scale of the Hamas attack, the IDF will be less careful than usual in avoiding civilian casualties. So Hamas, and its gullible supporters around the world, will be able to say "Look, 200 Arabs killed and only 100 Israelis killed." Which is exactly what Hamas wants, given their low esteem for human life and suffering.

It’s almost as if Hamas have their own Itamar Ben-Gvir, no one has the moral high ground in this conflict.

 

[ks.234]

That's just virtue signalling.

Sometimes (and it's unfortunate) you just have to accept nasty things to achieve your goal. There is zero support or protection for those being persecuted and murdered in Palestine so how would you (in the real world) provide a solution?

What is the goal that is justified by murdering and persecuting people ?

 

[cooky1257]

I'm wondering if part of the strategy is to take as many illegal settlers hostage as possible as a means of forcing restraint on the scale and indiscriminate response from the IDF.....

 

[paulfromcamden]

I'm wondering if part of the strategy is to take as many illegal settlers hostage as possible as a means of forcing restraint on the scale and indiscriminate response from the IDF.....

It's been reported that the aim is to exchange for Palestinian prisoners. But it also won't look good if the IDF bombs a Gaza block that turns out to contain hostage women and children.

 

[gavreid]

JVL Introduction​

Haggai Matar, responding to the crisis unfolding in Israel and Gaza and deploring the attacks on civilians, stresses that this is not a “unilateral” or “unprovoked” attack. He writes:

• The dread Israelis are feeling right now, myself included, is a sliver of what Palestinians have been feeling on a daily basis under the decades-long military regime in the West Bank, and under the siege and repeated assaults on Gaza.
• [T]here is a reason to everything that is happening today… as in all previous rounds — there is no military solution to Israel’s problem with Gaza, nor to the resistance that naturally emerges as a response to violent apartheid.”
• The only solution, as it has always been, is to bring an end of apartheid, occupation, and siege, and promote a future based on justice and equality for all of us. It is not in spite of the horror that we have to change course — it is exactly because of it.

Gaza’s shock attack has terrified Israelis. It should also unveil the context

Haggai Matar, responding to the crisis unfolding in Israel and Gaza and deploring the attacks on civilians, stresses that this…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

 

[Darmok]

Palestinian's = "The Oppressed."

Tis shameful that this situation has been allowed to continue for sooo long unabated.

No electricity, sewerage services obsolete, caused by the oppressors.

 

[vacuum_tubes]

What is the goal that is justified by murdering and persecuting people ?

I asked a question, try responding with an answer, then ask your question.

 

[cooky1257]

It's been reported that the aim is to exchange for Palestinian prisoners. But it also won't look good if the IDF bombs a Gaza block that turns out to contain hostage women and children.

That was kind of my thinking.

 

[Bob McC]

That's just virtue signalling.

Sometimes (and it's unfortunate) you just have to accept nasty things to achieve your goal. There is zero support or protection for those being persecuted and murdered in Palestine so how would you (in the real world) provide a solution?

I presume you are not in the U.K. because voicing any support for Hamas in the U.K. is a criminal offence.

 

[vacuum_tubes]

I presume you are not in the U.K. because voicing any support for Hamas in the U.K. is a criminal offence.

I wasn't supporting Hamas, it's purely tactics to achieve the outcome.

 

[paulfromcamden]

JVL Introduction​

Haggai Matar, responding to the crisis unfolding in Israel and Gaza and deploring the attacks on civilians, stresses that this is not a “unilateral” or “unprovoked” attack. He writes:

• The dread Israelis are feeling right now, myself included, is a sliver of what Palestinians have been feeling on a daily basis under the decades-long military regime in the West Bank, and under the siege and repeated assaults on Gaza.
• [T]here is a reason to everything that is happening today… as in all previous rounds — there is no military solution to Israel’s problem with Gaza, nor to the resistance that naturally emerges as a response to violent apartheid.”
• The only solution, as it has always been, is to bring an end of apartheid, occupation, and siege, and promote a future based on justice and equality for all of us. It is not in spite of the horror that we have to change course — it is exactly because of it.

Gaza’s shock attack has terrified Israelis. It should also unveil the context

Haggai Matar, responding to the crisis unfolding in Israel and Gaza and deploring the attacks on civilians, stresses that this…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

Sorry Gav. Shooting women and children at a bus stop just feels like revenge.

 

[Ponty]

This is going to get very ugly, they’ll be absolutely annihilated. Israel are properly tooled up. Iran poking from behind perhaps?

 

[gavreid]

Sorry Gav. Shooting women and children at a bus stop just feels like revenge.

Of course it's revenge, however the anger might be misplaced, its origins need to be understood. There is no equality here...

 

[paulfromcamden]

Of course it's revenge, however misplaced, its origins need to be understood. There is no equality here...

Of course. I just don't just share the enthusiasm some members apparently have for the massacre of civilians.

 

[ks.234]

I asked a question, try responding with an answer, then ask your question.

No, you started with an assertion… “that is just virtue signalling”

 

[gavreid]

"JVL, many of whose members have friends and relatives in Israel, joins those who mourn all who have died in the upsurge of violence in Israel/Palestine, Israeli and Palestinian alike. With sadness, we prepare to mourn also the many more deaths, predominantly of Palestinians, that will now almost inevitably take place over the coming days."

"...UK media overwhelmingly present the decades-long horror story which is Israel/Palestine as a one-on-one conflict between two matched sides. Seemingly wilfully, they feed the widespread public ignorance of the realities of the situation. Our government deplores the violence of the Palestinian incursions and barrage of rockets; but it gives continuing support to Israel, whose violent suppression of the Palestinian people is systematic and unremitting."

Full statement (I don't read any enthusiasm in this):

“For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”

JVL, many of whose members have friends and relatives in Israel, joins those who mourn all who have died in…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

 

[epo1]

I presume you are not in the U.K. because voicing any support for Hamas in the U.K. is a criminal offence.

Hamas is indeed proscribed in the UK but it is not illegal to express support for them. Fundraising, recruitment, inviting support, causing people to believe you were a member? All illegal. Saying you think they are in the right, no.

 

[wacko]

This is going to get very ugly, they’ll be absolutely annihilated. Israel are properly tooled up. Iran poking from behind perhaps?

It is totally asymmetric. Israel has one of the strongest military machines in the world: helped by $3billion a year from the USA for decades. All the power of a rich state. And 200+ nuclear warheads.
Hamas is a ragtag resistance militia with inaccurate small weapons.

 

[Ponty]

It is totally asymmetric. Israel has one of the strongest military machines in the world: helped by $3billion a year from the USA for decades. All the power of a rich state. And 200+ nuclear warheads.
Hamas is a ragtag resistance militia with inaccurate small weapons.

Yep, a death wish, which makes me think other players are involved, or could be.