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The runners' thread...

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Call me crazy but I've decided that my first race of 2018 - my comeback race - will be the 2018 Stirling Scottish Marathon on 29th April. Having returned to running last week, that gives me 15 weeks from today to get in shape and up to speed if I'm to complete the distance in 3:59:59 or quicker - or more than likely, slower. I found this 17-week marathon training plan online last night and although I'm only on week 2 technically speaking with last week being week 1, I intend to make this Sunday's long run a 55 minute(ish) run to bring me on track with the marathon plan, which means that next week I'll be running as per week 4 and so on for the remainder of the schedule.

To get an idea of where I'm at with my current ability, I'll be running a fairly flat 10K this weekend, and as long as I can complete the distance in about an hour, ideally sub-60 minutes - 55 minutes on the nose would be absolutely perfectly - a fairly flat marathon at the end of April should be achievable, albeit still extremely challenging.

Fwiw, I haven't signed up yet, but as long as I stay injury-free throughout January, I'll sign on the dotted line in February for sure :)
 
Another cross country race at the weekend - lovely course at Adderbury north of Oxford. Just over 9km. No big challenges but enough elevation change and mud to keep it interesting. This is my first race with my new Garmin GPS / HRM watch - pretty much ignored it while I was running but this is some of the data it came back with.

Pace (blue) and elevation (green line)
IMG_8734 by Ian123_running, on Flickr

and a bit more interesting pace and heart rate (red line)
IMG_8726 by Ian123_running, on Flickr

Interesting as I reckon my max HR is around 200 judging from some high effort hills earlier this month - and that's just about what I reach at the end of the race. Gradual drift upwards from 180 which I reached early on, to 200 at the end - is this normal / expected?

At the start I should have warmed up more. I was late and there were queues for the loos.
 
windhoek said:
Nice graphs there Ian. Do the numbers of the left indicate X/kmph? Which watch did you buy?
Click to expand...

Thanks - I'm just using Garmin default units at the moment. The scale on the left is pace in minutes/km (blue). Not one I've ever used, being a minute/mile kind of guy. But as many Brits we learn to work in mixed units.

The watch is Garmin Forerunner 935.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071XY653M/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

There is a very good comprehensive app for the phone and for my Macbook: Garmin Connect / Garmin express - the graphs came straight from my phone once it had synced after the race. Just syncs pretty seamlessly through Bluetooth (phone) or Macbook. There's a bit of a learning curve but once I got my head around the 5 buttons on the watch it's pretty slick.

It is a multi-activity thing as we also do a lot of walking and cycling too so it logs all of these activities (mapping our walks for example). Extraordinary bit of technology to have on the wrist and small enough to wear 24/7, as a wristwatch. Battery life seems pretty good too. Year ago I used to have a Polar chest HRM (never that comfortable) but this wrist monitor is WAY more reliable for me.

Great to hear your new goal - good luck and stay healthy!
Ian
 
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Thanks Ian, I thought the numbers on the left represented Kph; presumably minutes per Kilometre works out as the same thing, six and half a dozen and all that. And oh my, it's top watch that is! And yes, hopefully I'll be joining the marathon completers' club soon if I stay healthy :)
 
5 minute per km pace (on the graph) would be 12 kph speed.

It tells me for this run my average pace was 4.22 min/km, average speed 13.7km/hour

I think I'll try to re-configure it to minutes/ miles but maybe easier re-program brain instead.

Also reports my average cadence 167 steps per minute - closer than usual to the 180 in the video you linked to earlier - I have been learning the benefits of higher cadence especially on rough ground.
 
It's interesting - and quite surprising - that your cadence is roughly 167 SPM; it might well be you have a long stride length that makes such an apparently moderate cadence work, I don't know. Or maybe it was because you were running up muddy hills that brought the average cadence down. All I know is, is that anything less than 170 SPM and I'd probably start to wobble lol.

Fwiw, I took my metronome out with me for the first time this year on Saturday and found myself feeling full of confidence straight away as soon as my cadence was metronomically locked at 180SPM, which it was from the off; by contrast, for my first few runs this year, I just went out without a watch or metronome just to get going as it were and that's pretty much all I achieved. Having used my metronome twice now I know how much it helps me optimise my cadence and to some extent, manage my pace, so I'll be using it extensively until the marathon when there really won't be any point in taking it as I doubt even a fresh battery would last anywhere near four hours. But still, it'll be indispensable when I'm training and hopefully I'll have a strong enough mental and mechanical imprint of what 180SPM is like without a metronome to guide me on race day.
 
I was just browsing through some running videos on Youtube and lo and behold, this one came up on the topic of cadence. When I heard that keyboard beat at 180 BPM I was like no way, my metronome must be broke or running slow as the keyboard beat seemed to sound so much faster. So I whipped out my metronome to check and sure enough, they were both bang on the money at 180 BPM. I now realise that 180 BPM sounds freaking fast when you're sitting in a chair, but thankfully it doesn't take too much practice to run at 180 steps per minute, especially with the aid of a metronome, as recommended in the video :)

 
This thread looks intimidatingly full of long distance types, but can I ask a simple question. Apologies if its already been covered, but is there a consensus on the best route plotting/distance checking website or free mac software? I'm never going to run with my phone so I'm not bothered for aps.
 
Actually I've already answered my question. This works perfectly well for my purposes.

https://www.goodrunguide.co.uk/Index.asp

I found a run that was perfect for me at the weekend after years of being frustrated with the area of London that I live in. I always thought Forest Hill was just too damn hilly for me to endure, but the secret is exploring the lands of the obscenely priviledged nearby; the verdant fields of the Dulwich Estate are there for us to trespass.
 
Elephantears
When I’m walking these days I always have OS maps on my phone - it’s brilliant having the 1:25,000 outdoor leisure and 1:50,000 land ranger maps on screen. I use it for planning runs too (on and off road) and sometimes run with it, but generally don’t like running with my phone either.

And local knowledge - running club? Our club may still have a bunch of routes on gmap pedometer (route planning software) via their web site.

I don’t know that area at all but is the Dulwich Parkrun any good?
 
Elephantears said:
This thread looks intimidatingly full of long distance types, but can I ask a simple question. Apologies if its already been covered, but is there a consensus on the best route plotting/distance checking website or free mac software? I'm never going to run with my phone so I'm not bothered for aps.
Click to expand...

I'm 44 years old so I don't have the legs to run short and fast anymore, those days are long gone. Running long and slow? That's something that gets easier every day :)

I use mapometer.com to plot routes for myself as it uses Google Maps to generate info on distance, elevation and gradient; it even estimates the energy required to run the route. It's really simple to use: you just click on a starting point and keep on clicking along the route you want to map out till you reach your end point. If a road is long and straight you could plot out a 2 mile route with just a start and end click, for example, but if it's bendy and has lots side roads it might take four or five clicks as complicated map sections sometimes confuse the tool. It's really simple and easily recommended in the absence of a GPS tracker.

Good luck with your running :)
 
ian123running said:
Elephantears
When I’m walking these days I always have OS maps on my phone - it’s brilliant having the 1:25,000 outdoor leisure and 1:50,000 land ranger maps on screen.
I don’t know that area at all but is the Dulwich Parkrun any good?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I use Viewranger with OS Maps on my phone when I'm walking in the Lake District, but I don't want to carry my phone running. However I just discovered that I already used mapometer some time ago to plot a route; I'd completely forgotten.

To answer your question, and John's above. I have usually found running in this area, and in London generally, to be a bit boring, because I find its flat parks totally uninspiring. So Dulwich Park in itself is nothing more than ok. Also, I don't like long runs on roads, so I'm afraid the slog along the South Circ to Catford is not my cup of tea, John, although the river valley that streches south from Catford looks promising. Perhaps when I've more stamina I might join you on that - one day.

I'm 48 and I've been running on and off for about 20 years, but very on and off, and never very far. I find about 4 miles or so is the best distance for me, as its long enough to feel some sense of freedom and rythym, but not long enough to strain my tender joints. I found when I did much further often I would start to tweak a knee. Recently I strained a hip/glute doing a sprint, and I really feel I have to be careful. My brother, who has done a lot of marathons, now has arthritis in the hips, and I fear that may be a genetic tendency.

But to get back to the good news; I discovered a fantastic circular route that combines woods, parks and roads. It begins in the Horniman Gardens, goes into Dulwich Woods, Peckerman's Woods, then down through the Dulwich Estate and past the school, up College Road to the entrace of Dulwich Park, across the park, and then winds its way through the back roads to the Horniman again. This has the kind of variety I get running in the part of Leeds that I come from (Headingley and the Meanwood valley). It's the first time I've found a run like that after living in London over 20 years so its a bit of a revelation. I just want to be really careful I take it slowly and not injure myself, so perhaps I'll start reading through the thread properly and thinking about cadence, and other such poetic matters.
 
That's great that you've found - or created - a route that's interesting. I live in the Southside of Glasgow, a city that's in a valley, so it doesn't take long before I hit a hill somewhere or another... and hills, as Sage Canaday says, are speed work in disguise!

I'll be heading out for a 4ml run myself shortly, have a good one :)
 
windhoek said:
Call me crazy but I've decided that my first race of 2018 - my comeback race - will be the 2018 Stirling Scottish Marathon on 29th April. Having returned to running last week, that gives me 15 weeks from today to get in shape and up to speed if I'm to complete the distance in 3:59:59 or quicker - or more than likely, slower. I found this 17-week marathon training plan online last night and although I'm only on week 2 technically speaking with last week being week 1, I intend to make this Sunday's long run a 55 minute(ish) run to bring me on track with the marathon plan, which means that next week I'll be running as per week 4 and so on for the remainder of the schedule.

To get an idea of where I'm at with my current ability, I'll be running a fairly flat 10K this weekend, and as long as I can complete the distance in about an hour, ideally sub-60 minutes - 55 minutes on the nose would be absolutely perfectly - a fairly flat marathon at the end of April should be achievable, albeit still extremely challenging.

Fwiw, I haven't signed up yet, but as long as I stay injury-free throughout January, I'll sign on the dotted line in February for sure :)
Click to expand...

I would be inclined to do a half first , around April and then the long one later in the year. Another six months could make all the difference
 
johnhunt said:
I would be inclined to do a half first , around April and then the long one later in the year. Another six months could make all the difference
Click to expand...

Yeah its an ambitious plan to say the least - especially as the 17-week plan assumes I've already put in 4-8 weeks of base building, which I haven't of course; weeks 1 and 2 are my de facto base building weeks. It looks like entries for the marathon close at the end of January so I've still got a wee bit of time to find out how realistic my plan to run a marathon at the end of April is. If I can't do a reasonably comfortable 10K run this weekend in roughly 60 minutes, I might just opt for the Stirling half-marathon instead. But I'm hoping I can and can go on to run the marathon.

Fwiw, the thing that made me think I can do it was looking at the pictures of runners from last year's Stirling marathon. Although some look like they're pretty fit and probably put in a pretty competitive time, some of the runners look like mere mortals just like myself, so I'm hoping that with just enough training - that's all I've got time for anyway - I can run a mere mortal marathon myself. Fingers crossed.
 
Running a marathon does put extraordinary demands on the body and I would not do one lightly. I think this is especially true for 'mere mortals'. The risk of injury, or simply not enjoying it, is high especially if you do not have a the deep endurance base. Even then it's a very tough thing to ask the body to do. I'd want to be in a position where my endurance had 'plateaued' and train at that level for at least 4 or 6 weeks to allow the body to adapt. I heard a rule of thumb: build up gradually (10% a week as a guide is pretty conservative) until you can comfortably run 18 miles or so with no major muscle damage, and then peak period of 5 weeks during which do 5 long runs totally 100 miles. Then 2 or 3 weeks taper.

Of course goals vary - if you don't have endurance base but want to get around the distance on the day, run / walk it and enjoy the experience. It may still hurt though.

These days I talk a good marathon - my goals stretch to a vague aim of 10k race later in the year and my long run is no more than 80 minutes / 10 miles.

Ian
 
ian123running said:
Interesting as I reckon my max HR is around 200 judging from some high effort hills earlier this month - and that's just about what I reach at the end of the race. Gradual drift upwards from 180 which I reached early on, to 200 at the end - is this normal / expected?
Click to expand...
I think it is normal for a steady effort near threshold. So pacing looks optimal.

(I know nothing specific about running, other than most middle aged people I know who get at all serious also get hurt just through the running. This thread supports this impression... Get a bike, go to the mountains...)
 
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